Podcast Alert: A Study in Fan Friction

Transcript

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AJ Maestas: [00:00:00] Welcome to Navigating Sports Business. I’m AJ Maestas founder of Navigate, and I’m joined by Ali Corbin, our VP of Custom Research. Our team just got back from the SBJ Brand Innovation Summit in Chicago, where we hosted our annual brands-only workshop with 75 brand decision-makers in attendance this year.

And today we’re just trying to pull back the curtain on that to be able to share it with you. The workshop had two sessions. First, Ali presented some original research from Navigate on fan friction and sponsorship along with an interactive dashboard that we’re gonna link in the show notes, so you can get access to that.

And second, our co-hosts the team at Connect Partnership Group moderated a panel on the rising cost of sponsorship with marketers from American Airlines, Kraft Heinz, Prudential Financial, and Farmers Insurance. So we’re just gonna scratch the surface today, but if you’re a brand marketer who missed it, reach out.

We’d love to get you on the list for next year. It [00:01:00] does sell out. There is limited capacity. And with that said, Ali let’s get after it here. Your presentation covered a lot of ground, but the central thesis was that sponsors have a real opportunity to stand out by reducing friction for fans. So what was the main takeaway?

Ally Corbin: Yeah. So the study was really meant to look at how sports fans view the fan experience today, to really understand where or how sponsorship can intentionally make the experience better. And while we learned that friction is a major challenge within the fan ecosystem in 2026, what stood out to me the most is that the majority of fans said that sponsorship feels like any other ads when it’s not adding any value.

And so this tells us that sponsorship has become noise in many regards. It can be very forgettable or rather irrelevant if brands are simply relying on spots, dots, traditional approaches to sponsorship marketing. Nearly seven in 10 [00:02:00] respondents told us that they notice sponsors more when the brand provides a practical benefit.

And so really understanding practical benefit or relevance in the fan experience is really going to be the next advantage in sponsorship marketing.

AJ Maestas: Okay. That reminds me of the concept of reciprocity that we talk about a lot in negotiations, right? If you’re adding value to their life you’re more welcome.

They wanna return the favor essentially. What are the biggest friction points? I, when I hear friction, I think of the tech world, right? Modern users, including me, e- expect this frictionless experience. I know we’re putting in a lot of work, and you are in particular with Populous, trying to design future stadiums, that are frictionless as a partner, as a client.

But yeah, in the brand world, I’m having a hard time picturing, yeah what do you mean by frictionless, or what do you mean by reducing friction?

Ally Corbin: Yeah. So the fan ecosystem in 2026 is very complex, and at each of those access points can be a pain point or a barrier for fans to even get what it is that they want.

[00:03:00] From our study specifically, the biggest friction points were really stemming from ticket prices and streaming access. Ticket prices being the number one barrier in our study, our number one friction point, and 44% of fans actually don’t have the streaming services that they need to watch a game that they’re interested in.

And- … this can be a huge challenge. It’s not that folks are not interested in sport anymore. It’s that it’s so stratified that there are many more friction points to solve to help make fans have better access.

AJ Maestas: I’m really surprised to hear 44% don’t have the streaming service they need, but I know people are password borrowing and stuff like that, but I would never miss something that’s important to me because I’m not signed up for a streaming service.

But, I’m not your average fan, of course. Okay, so how do we solve for this? Can you give me an example?

Ally Corbin: Yeah, absolutely. I think one example that stands out for ticket crisis and streaming specifically is with T-Mobile, one of our clients that actually tackled both of these points together.

Through the [00:04:00] relationship and people who are subscribers, they were offering free tickets as well as access to free MLB ti- dot TV for customers, which was a big win for T-Mobile and for MLB. And I feel like this is the perfect example when we think about removing friction. It’s really finding the moment that the fan is already trying to do something and be the thing that helps them do it.

I would also say that if you’re going to go this route, it has to be executed flawlessly. We have seen many other examples where you come up with a great idea, such as free tickets or free MLB.TV, but then there are many other issues woven within. There wasn’t a pre mortem done to make sure that everything was done flawlessly.

So if you’re gonna go this route you do need to make sure that all things are really planned out and that execution has little or no pain points for solving previous pain points for fans.

AJ Maestas: I’m not just saying this ’cause, again, we work with them, but that I’ve noticed, totally unrelated to work stuff, I was just going to a concert at an outdoor amphitheater here in Phoenix, and T-Mobile’s a Live Nation [00:05:00] partner.

It was a Live Nation venue, obviously, and they had this skip the line, accelerated frictionless entry and yeah, it is a super helpful, right? Because the line at this place is crazy, so I guess there’s a negative there. But I appreciate you staying in the frictionless stuff because I think that’s easy to solve for when you compare to picture the tech world and apps.

Think of the stadium in-person experience at least. It’s full of so much pain, so much old school, old world, hiccups and bottlenecks. And to your point on streaming, I didn’t realize how many people had friction in seeing what they wanted to. Okay, so what about those who don’t have a budget like T-Mobile, right?

They got 100 million-plus, subscribers. It’s endemic to what they do to make streaming accessible to people. So yeah, any examples you can use for other brands?

Ally Corbin: Yeah, I would say the thing to keep in mind here is really to seek relevance over impressions. Relevance is going to look like something different pending the sport and the location, but relevance doesn’t need a large budget.

I have two examples for you. One is one that we shared in the brand [00:06:00] innovation presentation itself, which was with OFF! the bug spray company, and their investment with Little League. It was actually very simple. They were providing free bug spray in the dugouts and in bleachers for those in attendance, and this was done with a very small budget in comparison to T-Mobile, but it added an incredibly memorable moment for thousands of family.

And OFF! actually added value by relevance for solving a problem taking place. No one likes getting bit by mosquitoes, and this is a very easy example to understand this concept.

AJ Maestas: I was just in my hometown, which is like a mosquito farm. It’s miserable being outside. This is Alaska. It’s horrible.

Yeah. It would’ve been nice. Let me put it that way. Okay, yeah. No, but please s- stick with examples ’cause I just want anyone hearing this to, to think of “Okay, instead of putting my name on a sign, I could do this for fans.”

Ally Corbin: Absolutely. The other example is actually from Visa from the Women’s World Cup in 2015.

It’s actually stuck with me for about a decade, and it’s happening now. But Navigate was on the ground in [00:07:00] Vancouver, Edmonton, and other cities for Visa, looking at the Women’s World Cup, and Visa’s entire mission for their investment with the Women’s World Cup was to make their experience highly memorable for folks traveling from all over the world to Canada.

And one component of their strategy was to give cardholders a capsule to commemorate their World Cup experience, and they actually gave out an owl stuffed animal, which sounds a little odd, but that was the mascot for the 2015 Women’s World Cup, and everybody wanted one of these animals. In this regard, it really wasn’t solving tickets or streaming, but rather giving fans something memorable and allowing them to relive that experience any time they came across that stuffed animal.

And this might sound a little relevant now, because this is happening in the men’s World Cup. You may be familiar with Bank of America and the fan bands that they’re giving out. Yes. Yeah. They gave out two million free bands where people can build and trade and collect beads from, the host cities and the team, and people are loving it, and Bank of America looks [00:08:00] incredible in the process.

There are easier wins, though. I’m talking about a bug spray. I’m talking about a giveaway. But you kinda mentioned this earlier with your concert that you went to with skipping the line, giving people this exciting opportunity to do something that they were already going to be doing. Another element looks like free shipping on merch.

This can be in the venue or beyond the venue, giving exclusive behind-the-scene content, ticket priority, seat upgrades, things of that nature that are already endemic to the experience itself, and a sponsor can be a solution to make it even better or more frictionless.

AJ Maestas: That’s interesting. I like ’em. I’d love to receive ’em as a customer, consumer, fan, or whatever.

A lot of them are benefits to the team, too, which is funny but I get it. That’s what you’re buying into, right? You’re buying into that halo effect. So in the second session at the SBJ Brand Innovation Summit, there was a panel about the rising cost of sponsorships. Can you give me the top takeaways from that?

Ally Corbin: Yeah, absolutely. The panel was great. It was with senior marketers who gave honest answers of how they’re facing [00:09:00] sponsorship decision-making right now. And without coordinating, a lot of their answers really lined up closely with our research from my presentation. I would say one major takeaway is that creativity is really beating out tradition and doing things because it’s always been done that way, and the onus of being creative is really on the brand itself versus relying on the property or the agency alone.

And I would say another takeaway with that is that brands are becoming much more savvy with ROI and the why behind decisions, and thus every avenue needs to be defendable and intentional. I thought that was huge, whereas, in past years, that hasn’t been quite as sophisticated, whereas now every decision has to be, a checks and balances and defendable for how it’s being spent.

AJ Maestas: Oh, yeah. I love what, I loved what Joyce Chagan from Farmers Insurance said also a client for full disclosure but even if she wasn’t, it was just brilliant. The, she’s doing test versus control. She’s making the case of i- if it should [00:10:00] be better in paid and measured media versus sponsorship.

They dropped this sponsorship, the PGA tournament in San Diego, prestigious location. They’re headquartered in Southern California, and what, I think she signed up for TGL, some other golf stuff that’s, much less expensive and reallocated some of that budget. But the AB testing, the truly speaking to her CFO in the language, that she can, actually use to allocate dollars, it was so good.

It was something I wish the whole world could hear and listen to. So I agree. That really, it really impressed me because instead of just sticking with the legacy investment because executives like it, truly being a steward of that money, right? Being really responsible with their budget. Yeah. That was– I wa- I was impressed.

Yeah.

Ally Corbin: Yeah …

AJ Maestas: go ahead, please.

Ally Corbin: I was just gonna say, with them stepping away from the Farmers Open and dipping their toe into the TGL, I– they’re also thinking about their own return, right? They offered free- … Wi-Fi in that case, and it wasn’t just a pool for anybody to gather [00:11:00] from. They were actually getting data back from that, which of course, everything that happens now in sponsorship, it’s not only what is it for the property and for the fan, but obviously the brand itself.

And I think that type of lead gen plus fan perk is really the equation that brands should be looking at of what is in it for them, but really how do you also, center this around fans so that they’re gonna be very happy. And I think with this experience, they realize that, Farmers is making a comeback from relevance and stepping away more from the traditional golf and into a more modern area, and then having people have free Wi-Fi with their experience.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. And I think, yeah, the lead gen element, if I remember correctly Joyce shared with us that it was, that was super measurable, super productive, right? Direct leads, direct b- to business, so that forced sign up for Wi-Fi was really helpful. And then, on a golf course it’s tough to get connectivity.

Ally Corbin: Absolutely. Well- So I actually have a question for you, AJ. For sponsorship marketers who hear all of this and think, we need to rethink our [00:12:00] own sponsorship and how we’re doing things,” what would you say is the first move for them?

AJ Maestas: I I think you’ve heard me say some of the things over and over again, right?

Invest in the right audience, on target, pay the right price, activate. But for the activation thing, one of the tricks I think we heard the brands talking about that I thought was smart, because it’s viewed as this flexible budget that always gets cut and pressured, and so they were actually forcing it into their deals, and then the teams are obligated to do the activation form, or they give them the money back to do it themselves, but it’s protected.

So if the money’s in a contract, it’s there and it’s protected at a big corporation. If it’s like flex spending, it disappears and marketing is one of the first places, they come for budget cuts. Our rule of thumb, I think, is that at least 50 cents on the dollar in activation versus rights fees.

It very much depends on what category, how complex your storytelling and messaging and product or service is. But that’s just the beginning of diminishing returns. That doesn’t mean negative ROI. So it really can be up to a buck 50 per dollar in rights fees. Obviously, if it’s naming rights, it doesn’t have to be that big, [00:13:00] but I’m just giving you some averages.

I, I think the digital thing is a real problem for sponsorships, and it’s a real challenge. Some people are doing a good job at it. We just had a really nice call with AMBSE out of Atlanta, really working hard to, bring digital assets to bear and measure them. But this isn’t just a tell– a challenge for teams.

This is a challenge for all the major publishers. This is a conversation we had with Disney at the highest levels recently. The firms that have social media and search have about as much revenue as all of sponsorships just in those two forms, about 100 million each in those categories, and they can almost perfectly measure attribution.

They can often tie it right back to a sale. So I think we all need to step up our tracking, right? There’s basic methods like pixels that follow someone around and see if they head to the website and buy later. But if you can prove with your digital assets, which are a really small percent of sponsorships, 10, 15, 20% of an average sponsorship, if you can prove that it’s outperforming other digital assets, I think it’s pretty safe to say the brand would assume that it’s [00:14:00] working, the other elements are outperforming peer elements as well, right?

The halo effect of that brand, that team, that what have you. But if you don’t prove it, it’s pretty tough when budgets come to look over there and say, “Oh, these guys are exactly tracking. They can give me exact results,” and you, sports team X, are not. So I think that I would apply the same measurement methodology to the digital assets I have in sports as I do to anything I do in search, anything I do in social, anything, right?

Digital. So those are a couple I think are pretty obvious, but let me turn that question around on you, ’cause I know– I thought you were great on stage. What would you say? What are the key high-level takeaways for a marketer? If they’re walking away from all of this, what would you tell them to do?

Ally Corbin: Yeah. It feels like a loaded question, but the first thing that pops into my mind is understanding your audience and figuring out what you actually know about them versus what you need to know. I think a lot of brands tend to focus on demographics, or they rely on the property for a fan recap report of some kind.

Yeah. Yeah. Or they’re referring [00:15:00] to, syndicated data. And I would say all of that is good and maybe average, but it’s not best in class, and it’s not good enough in my opinion, because everybody else is doing the same thing. So in order to stand out, I think you really have to obsess over objectives.

You have to obsess over fans and put the fans in the center of your decision-making, and then figure out what does utility look like for you. Is it something as simple as bug spray, like Off? Or do you have the budget and infrastructure for something as big as Wi-Fi or, streaming and ticket upgrades?

So I always start with what data do you have, and how can you capitalize on that, and how can you quickly get more of that to then do exactly what you’re talking about. ‘Cause otherwise, it’s just throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and crossing your fingers, and we know that doesn’t work.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. I can’t lie I hate the way most people measure, which is really inaccurate, low-quality syndicated research just saying, “Oh, more of our fans buy your product.”

Or the minutes and seconds of media exposure tracking, which I was hoping would go the way of the buffalo 20 years ago, and it’s still here [00:16:00] you know, as if it’s ROI, as if it’s selling stuff to say that eyeballs saw it on TV. It’s a directional measure, but I just… It’s sad to me that I think those are some of the most common methods.

So sponsorships, you heard me just say a few minutes ago that it’s a $100 million industry globally. It’s expected to grow at 7% a year. That surprises me as well. It’s been growing at seven-plus percent a year for 30 years now. So he- help me understand. Do you think that’s an accurate predi- projection, 7% growth rate?

Or do you think that at some point this whole thing slows with, competition with digital inventory, AI changes things? I don’t know. Any predictions you’d make for why people are still doing sponsorships, and if it’ll still grow?

Ally Corbin: Yeah. I think it’s- Gosh, if I’m a gambling person, I would say it’s going to grow this way.

I think sports is really on a catalyst right now, and sponsorship is becoming a better opportunity than ever. I think that, based on my 15 years studying sponsorship here at Navigate, we just know that it is a strong driver of brand relevance. It [00:17:00] creates higher purchase intent than any other marketing channels, and it really leads to loyalty.

I think brands are focusing on fewer, bigger, better deals, and they are being forced to get creative with how they activate and prove the real-time impressions that we were talking about. And if folks can really focus on what sponsorship is and not treat it like another ad, I think this is going to come true.

And I think it’s worth reminding us that, advertising borrows attention, sponsorship is borrowing affinity, and I think the biggest difference there is that traditional advertising is designed to reach people, whereas sponsorship is designed to reach communities. And I think the difference in that is, the concept of fishing in a v- a barrel versus fishing in an ocean.

So while digital commerce, digital and commerce are going to surge, like there’s no question on that either, I think sponsorship will still be key for how brands connect and build loyalty with consumers.

AJ Maestas: I’m glad you’re optimistic. I feel like I’ve been overly pessimistic over the years, just wondering, when push comes to shove, how do [00:18:00] you prove that this dollar is better in sponsorship than over here in search, or something like that.

I’m sure most people- Sure … listening to this have seen that search increased its share of advertising and increased its growth rate with AI. Obviously, that has to do with measurable outcomes and being more accurate in targeting and what have you. But I think that surprised a lot of people when the news broke.

They would’ve thought that space, the Alphabets and the Metas would’ve been maturing, but then all of a sudden they start to accelerate. All right give us some high-level takeaways. For brand marketers that weren’t there, give them the walkaway points

Ally Corbin: Yeah, I would say the takeaway points are really to invest in the right assets for the right audience and the right objective.

Don’t just go after something that seems cachet or chairman’s choice. I think obsessing over the objectives to inform everything else is key. I think you have to go big or go home. Don’t sprinkle it with a bunch of little things. Really be intentional about what you have. I think activating what you have is smart.

Not everybody’s doing it or to the highest level, which can be problematic. I also think measurement, improving [00:19:00] ROI, or at least the value relative to other mediums, is gonna have to be in play. And then of course, complementing this with other things, rights, IP, social, digital, mobile, influencers. Don’t do it in a vacuum.

I think live events are, irreplaceable in many regards. There’s high emotion, high community, high connectivity, and if you wanna break through the clutter, sports, entertainment are still worth it. It’s just harder than buying programmatic. But if it wasn’t hard you wouldn’t be needed in that case.

AJ Maestas: I would love to double stamp the influencer answer there too. Very measurable from a digital perspective. Very affordable, very targeted, very complimentary space to go, compared to, your whatever, your celebrity endorser or something like that, and I really appreciate your words around live events, being irreplaceable.

That makes me feel better about our industry, and it is true, right? What brings the world together, the few things that everyone actually wants to watch. We always look at that chart that shows, top-rated shows here in the US, and it’s 93 or more of the top 100, are sporting events, and it’s just a reality that people don’t come together very often in large groups outside of [00:20:00] sports and entertainment, music, and what have you.

Thank you. It’s a good reminder. You’ve given me optimism about sponsorships and being a place to reach people to impact them. It’s just we’re just losing community and connection in person these days, right? So just a reminder for everyone the study that was conducted that that Ali’s referencing, and some of the stats she just shared from, it has an interactive dashboard.

We’re gonna put it in the show notes here. You can filter by segment. There’s an AI tool, so you can ask questions of the data. So check it out if that might be valuable to you, and of course, you can always contact Ali to help beyond that. If you’re a brand marketer who couldn’t join us in Chicago, just a reminder, reach out.

We wanna get you on the list so you get a seat. This thing does reach capacity. The SBJ’s been kind in telling us it’s the most in-demand session they’ve had. I think they even had to get, security, making sure the wrong people don’t end up in the room, which is, I think, a compliment.

A little scary, but a compliment. And thank you all for listening to Navigating Sports Business. A special thank you to Ali Corbin for educating us today, and if you wanna dig into that research, just reach out to me, and I’ll relay you to Ali or [00:21:00] others on the team. I’m at AJ@NVGT.com via email, and of course, you can find us on our website, same URL, NVGT.com.

We’ll see you next time. Thanks for listening.