Podcast Alert: Chris Marinak – MLB

Transcript

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Chris Marinak: [00:00:00] It is really about just creating a product that is a little bit more conducive to what the current generation, who grew up on social media and seven second video clips, and all these kind of things. I mean, you just have to be a little bit more cognizant of how that audience wants to consume the product. Even Gen Z, you know, the next generation, they value and cherish this idea of connection and interaction. And so we’re not going to change the construct of the game, you know, where it doesn’t continue to provide these breaks in the action and opportunities for people to interact, because that’s. Our competitive advantage, and that’s what makes the game special. 

AJ Maestas: Hello and welcome to the Navigating Sports Business Podcast. I’m your host, AJ Maestas founder of Navigate, a data-driven consulting firm, guiding major strategies and decisions in sports and [00:01:00] entertainment. We started this podcast hoping to share the interesting stories and experiences of the amazing people we get to work with at Navigate. And even though they’re visionaries and famous, in many instances, their true stories aren’t often heard. Since they’re not on the playing field, our hope is you get to know them better and learn from them as we have. I am grateful to be joined today by Chris Marinak, the Chief Operating Officer and Chief Strategy Officer of Major League Baseball. Chris, how you doing?  

Chris Marinak: I’m great. Thanks for having me.  

AJ Maestas: How are you holding up, by the way? In New York City.  

Chris Marinak: We’re getting through it. New York City was doing really well in the summer and fall, obviously with the virus and some of the measures they put in place. And so there’s a little bit of a bounce back here, you know, now in the winter. But overall, not a bad place to be. Things are pretty in pretty good shape and just getting ready for the spring like everybody else, you know. Well,  

AJ Maestas: understandable. I think we’re all looking forward to it. [00:02:00] I’m lucky enough to be in Scottsdale, Arizona, so it’s, it’s always spring. Really? It feels that way. So I have so many questions for you about baseball. Baseball was my passion growing up. It was my favorite sport. A lot related to how you’re working to change the game and a lot about, what you expect to see in the future. So, if you don’t mind me just leaping right in. COVID has changed the way that a number of things have been presented to fans, and I can only imagine all the changes that have taken place. Do you mind sharing some of the things that you did to possibly, you know, mitigate the financial, losses of COVID, some of the. Innovative tactics that might have been accelerated because of COVID.  

Chris Marinak: Yeah, it was interesting, you know, once, once we paused play last year, I think our tech teams kind of quickly pivoted to think about what are some of the things that we’re going to need, you know, in a world without fans. And so we rapidly built up a couple of new. Technology products. One called Cheer at the Ballpark, which was a, an opportunity for fans to select a game, select a team that they were interested in, and [00:03:00] then cheer along at home and clap and cheer and, and that information was routed right into the stadium so the scoreboard operator could take that information and then use that to adjust the crowd noise in the ballpark. I think we had something like 95 million interactions with the app. I mean, it blew away expectations and it just showed you that the core feature of sports, which is connecting people and feeling part of a community. That pervades whether you can go to the game in person or not. People want to feel like they’re part of a community. 

They want to cheer alongside their friends or their other, you know, fans of that team. And that turned out to be a really successful piece of technology for us. You know, we also, like I said, you know, built out a extensive crowd noise audio system in the ballparks. And where we’re going with it for, for Future is really looking at ways for people to create that sense of community virtually. So whether it’s co watching with friends or more active gaming experience with leaderboards and other ways for you to tag some of your friends and play along at home, while you can’t necessarily go to the ballpark. And then even, you know, once we do get back to [00:04:00] the ballpark, I think a lot of those features and products will be useful because not everybody can go to the park every night, you know? And so to the extent that you can engage and interact with the sport while you’re at home to create a stronger sense of community, I think that’s going to bode well for. The growth of the business and the industry going forward and, and we’ll continue to invest in those areas. Even coming out of the pandemic. 

AJ Maestas: I agree with that and I really appreciate you citing that sort of sense of community cause that is what it’s about, right? That sort of tribal membership. Where does that go next? I mean, this app and this technology. Are you capturing fan data? Are there plans around a virtual or digital community For a fan of a given team, that’s an MLB product or an MLB solution? 

Chris Marinak: We’re still experimenting. I mean, we have obviously a number of different products. We have an app. We have our, our web and mobile products. We have MLB tv, and we’ve just built out a number of different products on our gaming platform. Our most recent addition to the ga our gaming platform is a game called Rally. That’s a in game prediction. A predictive game that allows fans to predict what’s going to happen in an [00:05:00] at bat, accumulate points, and then compete against friends and others on a leaderboard. And so I think you’ll see some of those additional capabilities and rally for sure. So, you know, additional things around communities, leaderboards, creating groups, kind of like fantasy sports where you can create a, a group of, of friends to compete with on a nightly basis or compete against, you know, fans of your favorite team. So more, more to come on that for sure. And then on the, on the viewing side, it’s still sort of in, in discussions with a lot of different options. So nothing, you know, firm and, and ready to go out the door. But again, I think to the extent that we can unlock opportunities to communicate and collaborate on our own and operated technologies. We want the high-end baseball experience to be on mlb.com. So the best and most interesting features, technologies, capabilities for the, for the most avid and active sports fans. You know, those should be available for you on mlb.com. And it should be to the extent you’re watching, you know, television at home, MLB [00:06:00] Network as built a brand as, as really the premium place for baseball, for baseball fans. And that’s the value proposition that we’re going to look to continue going forward with, with all of our properties.  

AJ Maestas: Well, that’s some very cool stuff. The cheer at the ballpark is, is cool. I understand that was your, that was your work and something else you did I understand. Was the MLB show sort of getting integrated into broadcast. Do you mind sharing what came of that? And I love the way that you quantified the cheer at the ballpark. 95 million is. More than I would’ve expected. Right. So, yeah. Tell me about, yeah, we figured. 

Chris Marinak: You know, we, on that one, we figured, you know, you’re going to get a handful of people every night. They’re going to do it once and then they’re going to kind of decide they don’t want to do it anymore. And it turned out that people were just, and it just made them feel like they’re a part of a community and we had just a ton of interactions. So I think it’s, it bodes well for the future on the Crowd. Noise, audio and MLB, the show we basically used. Audio tracks that we had worked in conjunction with Sony that were used in the video game, and they had all these different crowd noise reactions for home runs and strikeouts and [00:07:00] singles and doubles. And so we were able to take that, build an iPad interface for the ballpark and make that available for our stadium operators. And so a lot of people who were watching at home. Throughout the season on, on broadcast or streaming, if you couldn’t see that the stands were empty, you know, you felt like the, the people were there, you know, you felt like it was, and, and we’ve seen that obviously with the NFL and the NBA and other leagues that have subsequently come after baseball started up again, but. That was a cool, innovative thing that really didn’t exist before. And we, we put that together pretty quickly and it worked out really well. This off season and on the show build, you know, building on the show, you know, that was a, a video game. It’s a, it’s a really widely acclaimed video game had been only available on, on the Sony platform, on PlayStation, and we’ve been working extensively over the last year or two to. Expand that. Cause a lot of people want to play it on the Xbox platform. And so I think we just did an announcement today that made that public. So MLB, the show is on the Xbox now for this upcoming 2021. And I expect we’ll get a lot of interest and buzz from the Xbox community on the, on that [00:08:00] game because it’s a really solid game. 

AJ Maestas: I’m so glad to hear that. I know that in and making a mistake. I’m super grateful for the chance that we’ve gotten the, the ability to work with you on these kind of things. And as far as pathway to fandom you know, the video game experience, you know, the next generation of fans, it’s just, it’s just different than it was a generation before. And that’s one of those key differences. So, good for you. I think there’s so many benefits in that. That’s, that’s, that’s really smart stuff. Glad to hear and congrats. There had to be a million logistical challenges with COVID. I would love to like. You know, have insight into what was going on, you know, you and the commissioner and whoever else is there. Can you treat us like as if we were a fly on the wall and, and how you mapped out last season and the coming season?  

Chris Marinak: Yeah. You know, the toughest part, at least from the stuff I was involved in, was. The, the gymnastics around making the schedule, adjusting the schedule. I mean, you just, you were just kind of like taking it day to day by day. You know, we, I don’t know if you remember kind of the beginning of the season, you know, we got off, the first weekend was great. People were just so happy to have sports back. [00:09:00] We had huge viewership numbers on opening night and opening weekend. I mean, we blew away all of our metrics, from any prior year. And then right after that we figured out that the Marlins, you know, had this kind of extensive outbreak on their team. We had to stop them from playing. I think we then we shut down the Phillies and it was kind of this domino effect and the Yankees were supposed to go play the Phillies and you know, they’re like getting on the bus to go there and they’re like halfway down there and we said, you know, get off 95 and, and take a left to Baltimore. You know, why don’t you guys go play down there for a couple days? You know, let’s just keep this thing rolling. To the credit of everybody in baseball. I mean, people were, were great Last year. It was like, look, we’re just gonna do what we gotta do. We weren’t preparing to go to Baltimore, we weren’t planning to go down there and play, but we’ll make it happen. 

We’ll get the games in and, you know, we’ll be, we’ll compete and fight and try to get through the season. And, you know, that was, I think what was most interesting was just to see that, you know, people really just wanted to have a sense of normalcy, you know, and they’re [00:10:00] willing to get through all the. Stress and challenges and uncertainty around, you know, what was gonna happen. And look, there was always a risk that it just would’ve been, you know, you just couldn’t pull it off. It was, there was no kind of safe way to do it. But, you know, we, we learned a lot, you know, this summer about the virus that ended up really helping out the community and society. People didn’t know at the time that. It was very difficult to transmit the virus outdoors and we really didn’t know that until we had that Marlins issue. I mean, they had like, half their team was positive technically on one of the days that they were playing. And you know, having interactions, you know, obviously going to the plate with the catcher, with the umpire, with the Phillies on base, base coaches, and you know, the fact that there wasn’t any transmission on the field, I think was at that point a sign that. We, we learned something about the virus. And so I thought that was a really interesting thing. And there were other, a whole host of other things around mask wearing and being on airplanes and stuff that we learned and was helpful. And there’s a lot of scientific research that’s [00:11:00] been released since, you know, the beginning and, and the conclusion of our season that, you know, helped move the science forward, which I think was another benefit of just grinding out the season and, and getting it in. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah, only time will really tell. But I agree. I mean there, there people needed that, you know, there’s a mental health piece of this equation that, that does have to be considered as far as where is outlet and, you know, sense of community and all that kind of stuff. So I’m glad you did. You know, you know what it’s like, there’s always these political barriers to getting stuff done, right? There’s always red tape and I feel like COVID was a gift in that. You know, we cut through a lot of those steps and procedures. Right. Just to get it done. Is there anything off the top of your head where you can look back and say, boy, you know, the format of our game or the way we travel, or the way we play could change forever cause we now know we can do it. Or anything positive that could come out of it As far as the, the format of the season, anything.  

Chris Marinak: Yeah, I mean, look, we, I think you saw that we had a number of different. Rule changes and things that we tested this year. You know, we had the [00:12:00] runner on second base in the, in extra innings. We had seven inning double headers. We had the DH in the National League. There were other rules around pitcher usage and things like that, and it’s hard to react to any one of those in isolation. But I will say that baseball has a tradition and a history that people really appreciate and value, and we’re extremely respectful of that. But one, the one thing that. It did show us last year. I mean, that was probably the biggest package of changes that we’ve had in the sport for, you know, who knows how long, 50 years or more. Right. And I think mm-hmm. The fact that people still recognize the game, it still felt like baseball. It wasn’t like a dramatic change in terms of how the sport was played and how people perceive the sport. I mean, it just shows you that we can, we can change and evolve the sport. Still preserve what’s special about it. Still preserve the history and the tradition and the things that people love about the game. And so I think that’s, I think that’s a positive. I think we will use that information and figure out what makes the most sense to do in terms of tweaking, modifying, adjusting the sport over time to [00:13:00] make it more compelling for fans. Really like all entertainment and all sports, you know, products do. And I think it’s kind of incumbent upon us to keep a pulse on, on the sport and to make it compelling and interesting for our fans. And so I think. That’s probably the one lasting thing that comes to mind that, that we’ll have, you know, in the future coming out of this year,  

AJ Maestas: it’s been such a fun process to explore those things with you. Right. It’s fascinating cause again, I am a baseball fan and I can remember a time in my life where I was so attached to the history of it. It was a point of pride actually, you know, that the game had not changed much. And, and I know there’s just, there’s backlash. Even if it’s the loud minority, and I’m not saying that it is, you know, there’s heavy pushback against that tradition. I’m I, I would love to know what you think is coming next, what you think is reasonable. You know, how do you balance that? You’re a base, I mean, you played in school, uh, you’re a passionate baseball fan. What do you say to yourself versus what you are able to realistically get across the goal line as far as changes? You know, do you think that we are holding ourselves back [00:14:00] because of that? Yeah,  

Chris Marinak: look, I think there’s a couple fundamental things that are unique about the sport that are hopefully will never, should never change. Um, you know, one of them is this idea that there’s regular breaks in the action, right? So there’s no other, and there’s no, you know, clock on the length of the game, right? So it’s not play 45 minute halves, or you play 12 minute quarters or whatever. You know, it’s you play innings and you have regular breaks in the action. And, and why that’s valuable is that. You know, it allows for interaction and communication and for people to build a connection and to interact, you know, and during those breaks, I mean, there’s no other sport that’s kind of designed that way and that’s why, you know, people I think have those family connections because you remember going to the game and it wasn’t like, you know, you went to the game and you were standing on your feet screaming, you know, for three hours and then you left and you didn’t have a chance to talk to the person sitting next to you. I mean, our sport’s designed to be a sport where. You come to the ballpark and it’s an experience, it’s an interaction, and, and it most importantly, it’s an experience with the people that you’re with. And it gives you a chance to connect with others. I don’t think that’s ever going to change. And then the other piece of it is, [00:15:00] um, you know, this idea that it’s a one-on-one interaction within a larger team format, right? 

So it’s, it’s kind of like tennis, right? Or it’s kind of like, you know, a golf where it’s a, it’s sort of a individual one-on-one sport where you have pitcher and batter, right? Interaction, and then it’s in the construct of this entire larger team format. And if you think about other sports, there’s really no other sport like that either, right? Basketball, football, soccer, you know, hockey. All of them have a team element where it’s not a one-on-one type of situation as at the core element of the game. And where that creates interest is that it, it, it does create this level of purity within the statistics, right? It, and it allows you to analyze that isolated interaction and look at. How good was this pitcher? How good was this hitter? You know, how did a hitter, you know, respond in this type of circumstance? And it just really unlocks this opportunity for statistical analysis. That’s always been, you know, you talk about being a fan when you were younger. I mean, people who are really hardcore fans when they were younger, just love the statistics. They love baseball cards, looking [00:16:00] on the back of the card or keeping score or whatever. And I think that’s always going to be part of the sport. You know, with that all being said. I think the game needs to evolve towards sort of modern consumption trends and patterns. I think within that framework, the pace of play and the interaction of play needs to speed up. 

You know, there needs to be more action, you know, more things happening on the field that people are interested in more opportunities to create excitement and engage. There’s a whole host of ways to do that. It’s base stealing, it’s moving runners along, bunting, put doing more, you know, singles, doubles, triples, less of the, you know, home run strikeout kind of mentality. And I think you’ll see some of that sort of naturally emerge over time, but it’s really about just creating a product that is a little bit more conducive to what the, the current generation who grew up on social media and seven second video clips and all these kind of things. I mean, you just have to be a little bit more cognizant of how. That audience wants to consume the product. You know, even Gen Z, you know, the next generation, they value and cherish this idea of connection and [00:17:00] interaction. And so we’re not going to change the construct of the game, you know, where it doesn’t continue to provide these breaks in the action and opportunities for people to interact. Because that’s our competitive advantage and that’s what makes the game special. And if anything, our younger fans value that even more. Than the older generation. And so I think that will hold itself well over time as the next generation of fans, you know, gets into the sport and continues to consume the product. 

AJ Maestas: Well, can you foreshadow for me what this is going to look like? You know, I know you, you personally and your team has put a lot of work into shortening the game. I’d love to know some of the things that are at least being contemplated to strike that balance Right between downtime and the length of the game and attention deficit disorder that we all suffer from. 

Chris Marinak: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s a complicated, and it’s, it’s not like there’s one solution to the problem. That’s what kind of makes it hard, right? It’s not like just go to. Two strikes and three balls, or you know, there’s all these kind of crazy ideas that are out there, right? Play shorter games or limit the number of, uh, pitchers you can have on a [00:18:00] team. And there’s so many different ideas that are out there. I think what’s most critical is that, you know, there’s a dialogue and there’s an interaction with our more, most loyal fans are up and coming fans, our players, people who are in the game, and we come up with the options that make the most sense for everybody. To kind of address some of those challenges. And so I don’t know that there’s a plan to do A, B, or C, you know, or something that is immediately emerging, but I do think there’s a lot of ideas out there and it’s really just going to be a continued progression coming out of the pandemic to explore those ideas or opportunities and, and see which ones make the most sense. 

AJ Maestas: Just for fun. If you were the commissioner or you were the czar of baseball and, and you could apply it from Little League across the planet right, in the format of the game, what would you be testing or what would you be doing?  

Chris Marinak: I think the biggest thing to be thinking about right now, and we are doing this, so you know, to not, it’s not to say that we’re not doing it, but I think it’s, you know, creating different ways for younger fans to consume the [00:19:00] product. So I think it’s really about. Unlocking gaming platforms, it’s unlocking, you know, different ways to consume the product digitally. Um, and we’ve had a leading technology product and offering and on mlb.com and MLB TV for years now, and it’s really about, you know, unlocking that product and making it more. Compelling and interesting for our youngest fans, um, our up and coming fans. And so whether it’s enabling them more flexible ways to watch games in their markets, make easier to consume other forms of content, highlights, other things like that, there’s a, you know, I can get into a new product that we built called the MLB Film Room. That’s, you know, really trying to get at changing the way that our fans consume highlights. And so that would be the one thing I would say is, is really trying to change the way that we deliver the product for our younger fans so that we’re meeting them on their platforms and we’re able to deliver the content and baseball engagement and interaction to our youngest fans in a way that they’re interested in consuming it. 

AJ Maestas: Well, I agree with that. I certainly agree with that. We’re, [00:20:00] we’re doing some pretty cool work with populace on the, the future of the ballpark, right? And, uh, one of those really hot questions is what do you do with the limited real estate that you have, right? And how do people get to spend their time flexibly? One of the really fun topics, we got to do some work over the last few years of a is the, uh, you know, a access concept, right? Like subscription based model, you know, what does it mean to be a fan? What does it mean to be a member? What does it mean to be a season ticket holder? I don’t know if there’s any insights you can give us into that or what you’ve learned, but I know we here at Navigate find it a fascinating topic. Cause from the position of an owner, you are making a 30 plus year bet, right? On this investment in a stadium. So you don’t have the luxury of the flexibility that we do, you know, with a digital product as an example.  

Chris Marinak: Yeah, from the venue side, I mean, that’s another big area of emphasis for us, and, and I think what we’re looking for is to create a, we have an app called Ballpark App, which is how you get, you know, digital tickets and, and en engage and interact at the ballpark. For us, the [00:21:00] vision is around. Unlocking that experience to make it seamless for how you live the rest of your life. Right. So, you know, there’s voice enabled devices. You have, you know, opportunities with your other digital technology providers, Amazon, Google’s, you know, Netflix, those types of things. And so it’s how do we create an app that. Seamlessly allows you to buy tickets. It knows who you are, and it has personalized information based on who you are. It can tell you which gate to go to. When you get to the ballpark, it can give you directions on where to park. It can tell you when you get into the ballpark, how to get to your seat, where the closest place is to get food. 

Frankly, if you were a seasoned ticket holder or something, and you had a common food order, or you had a common drink order, you know, you could make that order on your app by hitting a button or using your voice, and you’d go and pick it up right on your way into the ballpark. You know, just the idea that. You know, when I’m at home I can order my groceries online, have them delivered to my door, I can go on Amazon or whatever and order any product I need and it shows up the next day. I mean, you, you name [00:22:00] it, right? You can go on your Alexa or your Google Home device and you know, ask any question you can think of and it gives you an answer right away. You know, these are the types of things that have revolutionized just daily life, you know, for people outside of the sports community. And I think we’ve been a little slow to. Embrace that. I mean, part of it’s just that it’s a, it’s a hard challenge to solve, but, you know, I think we need to lean in on embracing the ballpark experience as a way for people to have a really high-end interaction that fits with the way they live the rest of their lives. And, and I think we’re, you know, actively working on things like that over the coming years that will start to unlock some of those opportunities for our fans.  

AJ Maestas: I very much agree with that. I think sometimes as an industry we get into this feeling that we’re amazing at, you know, the customer experience because people will line up to buy tickets, right? And they show up in droves. But the truth is, is when you compare it to industries, you know, that are great, you know, from the end to end experience, uh, I think there’s an opportunity. We did a really cool study where we sent people wearing this biometric vest that tracked all kinds of feedback, you know, heart rate [00:23:00] and accelerator and GPS locator and all this sort of fun stuff to try to. Get at where, where were the points of friction in the driveway to driveway experience and, um, you know, traffic, transit, parking, some of these things that, you know, you wouldn’t otherwise think people over report how long they wait in line, or how difficult these things are. So sometimes, you know, it’s, perception is reality on how difficult it is or expensive it is to go to the ballpark or go to a stadium. But I agree with you. I think we’re. And I think we’re lagging in those things, so Good. I’m glad that it’s in the framework. I know there’s a couple teams, I mean, the rays need a new ballpark, right? The a need a new ballpark. So  

Chris Marinak: I think people don’t appreciate uncertainty, right? And that that’s true when it comes to the ballpark experience. If it’s not something you’re doing every single night. And in particular, if it’s sort of a special experience and you want it to really go well, you have family, friends, whatever coming, and to again, compare to your normal life when it’s like, I, I order something on Amazon, I hit buy and it’s here tomorrow. It’s not here like three weeks from now. It’s not like random when it shows up like it’s. It. You know, it’s in here in one day and it’s there. Right? Or if you [00:24:00] ask a question to your Alexa or whatever, like it gives you the answer. I think that’s the type of mentality that we need to shift to the sports world, where it’s like, here, this is how long I need to, you know, I know how long I need to, you know, plan for in terms of travel. I know where I need to park. I know what gate I need to go to, and that I can have a reliable expectation around the security experience and getting into the ballpark. I need to know how to get to my seat in a way that doesn’t take me. Forever to navigate stairs and concourses and, you know, these are the types of things that make people skittish about coming to have the ballpark experience. And so to the extent that we can use technology to eliminate that uncertainty, I think it really creates an opportunity to, to scale the experience and to create, a more valuable experience for more of our fans.  

AJ Maestas: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, right? There’s so many opportunities with points of friction and even when it’s not good news, you can deal with certainty. Even though it’s bad news, better than you can deal with that uncertainty. No question. Those are frustrating moments, right? I don’t know if we all get to be a fan every day or go through the, you [00:25:00] know, experience of what it’s like for a normal fan to find a ticket and get to the ballpark park and get in their seat. We are asked by every client, uh, best practices in monetizing, you know, and certainly they want to grow their footprint, their reach, their social media following, but there has been a significant challenge in monetizing that. Sure. You know this all too well, that, uh, you know, 90 plus percent of these digital dollars in the growth and spending there is going to mostly two companies, right. In Google and Facebook. Any insight or anything you can share with us about how you have taken ownership of digital rights and assets and how that turns into money for baseball?  

Chris Marinak: Yeah, I mean, look, baseball has been an early adopter in technology. I mean, going back to the early two thousands, um, you know, I think we felt like. You know, baseball is uniquely suited to, to capitalize on information, data technology, just in terms of the fan base and the way the game’s played. And so we’ve always invested in that area. You know, look in terms of reach and obtaining reach, I [00:26:00] think. The value proposition of our platform has always been to go after the high end fan, you know, the fan that really loves the game and wants to devote, uh, an outsized amount of time to the product. You know, casual fan, you know, even going back 10, 15 years is, is fine to go to Yahoo Sports or ESPN or. Whatever the platform would be just to grab a score, you know? And that’s enough for them. And so I don’t think there’s any sense in us trying to compete with that. And to your point, you know, Google, Facebook have all entered that equation and you know, you can get scores and game recaps and things on those platforms as well. So, and in fact, you know, if anything, we’ve taken a more liberal approach to get our content out onto those platforms because we do want to reach those casual fans and we want to reach them on the platforms that they’re on. Conversely, I think we. Do still feel like it’s really important to innovate and create new products and new ways of consuming the game on our platform. 

And so, you know, as I’ve talked about, we’ve built out that new, uh, new rally predictive game that’s creating a sort of a gaming ecosystem for our fans. [00:27:00] We’ve have a new MLB film room product, which democratizes access to highlights. You know, maybe I’ll, I’ll spend a minute on that. Cause it’s a really, it’s a really cool story. I mean, we, we basically went from a world. You know, four or five, six years ago where we were very restrictive around access to highlights. It was like, Hey, these are our, these are our bread and butter. This is our core content. You got to come to us to get them. And, and what we’ve done with the MLB film room is sort of flipped that on its head and said, look, our fans are demanding access to our content, where they want it, how they want it, when they want it. 

And not only that, they want. User generated content, they want to create their own highlights. They don’t want you to tell them what highlights they should see. They want to make their own highlights and they want to share them with their friends and they want to use it to kind of build their sense of community. And so this film room product sort of hits on all those topics. We tagged every pitch from every game going back, I think to like 2016. So we have like something like 5 million videos in the library and it allows you to search that catalog. To a crazy level of detail. I mean, you can do the [00:28:00] Clayton Kershaw versus Mike Trout on one, one counts on day games. You know, where he hits a single and, you know, see all the clips of that, right? I mean, it’s just, you can imagine all the depth that you can get there. You can pull out video clips, create your own highlight reels so you can string together, you know, 3, 4, 5 different at bats, highlights, whatever. Then you get a link to that content that you can post on any platform. There’s no restriction to it. You can put it on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, you know, send a text message, an email, whatever. And we, we rolled that product out at the end of last season and saw a huge increase in terms of video consumption. And it just speaks to this idea that. If you democratize access to your content and you give people the controls to do what they want to do with your product, you’re still going to get the reach that you want. And then back on our core platform is where the high-end fans go. The ones that are making the highlight reels, the ones that are, you know, really putting the time and energy in to consume the content and the product. They have the tools that they need to be sort of power users back on our platform. And so that’s the strategy [00:29:00] that we’re focusing on, you know, going forward is kind of this two-pronged approach of really premium, high-end content and offerings on our platform. And then democratizing access on other platforms so that, you know, fans can get access to the, to content where they want it and how they want it. And we’ve seen a lot of success, particularly with younger fans, um, with that mantra. And I think we’re gonna continue to, you know, push that forward, um, in the future from, from here. 

AJ Maestas: I love that and I particularly appreciate what a massive pivot that was. Cause to your point earlier, that is not where MLB was just a few years ago. Right. So, good for you. Good for you. What, what else are you doing? Anything we haven’t chatted about that you’re doing to grow participation in fandom and baseball? I think we all know it’s a challenge. It’s a challenge for everybody, but, uh, I’d love for you to share a little bit more about what you are doing to grow the game.  

Chris Marinak: From a technology standpoint, I think one of the big things that we’re focusing on is, is this idea of personalization. So, you know, really trying to move to a model where we understand who our fans are. And that’s true both in the, [00:30:00] in the venue. So you made the point around the ballpark experience. You know, we’re trying to move from a world where any random person prints out a ticket and you show up at the ballpark and. We don’t know anything about you. We don’t know who your favorite players are. Your favorite team is, we don’t know what your favorite foods are, or whatever. And so it creates this sort of mediocre experience, right? Where you’re used to having, you know, your Amazons, your Googles, you know Facebooks, they know who you are, they know who your friends are, they know what you’re interested in, and they give you what you’re looking for, you know, so it just cuts down your time and it makes. 

Your experience so much better. And so I would say that’s our number one philosophical strategy on digital is move towards a world of personalization. So who’s your favorite team? Who’s your favorite player? What type of content are you interested in? And how do you bring that, you know, content to life in a way that’s compelling and meaningful for, for avid baseball fans And that. You’re going to start to see that manifest itself on in our app, where you’ll get recommended news content or other, you know, highlights or information about your favorite [00:31:00] teams. But then in the longer run, I mean, you can imagine a world where this starts to plug into the media ecosystem. And so instead of, you know, a product where you have to kind of subscribe and sign up to a package of, I get these teams, or this out of market package, or, you know, this types of content, you’re just a subscriber. 

It’s like a one price subscription. We know who you are, we know your favorite teams are, and when you want to watch baseball, you just come to the platform and you kind of hit play, right? And you know, I want to watch baseball tonight. It knows, you know that you’re a Yankees fan, you know, and so it’ll put the Yankees game on first for you. And if that game goes to commercial break and it knows that you’re. A big NL West fan, or you like the Dodgers, you know, cause they won the World Series last year. It’ll flip you over to there at bat with the bases loaded, and it’ll show you that at bat. And then it’ll take you to, you know, a player who’s about to hit for the cycle, you know, or something like that. And a really, you know, interesting milestone. It’ll just take you around the world of baseball, you know, based on who you are and what you’re interested in, rather than [00:32:00] just come to the platform. Pick the game you wanna watch. Let it sit there for three hours, watch the game, and then you’re done for the night. So that’s just an illustration of the type of engagement that we’re really focusing on and emphasizing with our products as a way to unlock, you know, the next generation of consumption. And I think you’ll start to see more and more of that stuff emerge over time.  

AJ Maestas: When is it realistic to actually have a product like that in our hands as a fan? 

Chris Marinak: I think it’ll take a couple years. I mean, look, all, we’re putting in all the foundation right now to just better, share account information, track your behaviors and, and what’s interesting for you. And you’ll just start to see. It won’t be like you go from A to B overnight, you know, it’s just going to be a gradual. Continued progression, where you start to see these new features and you’re like, wow, that was actually great, that they automatically took me to this next game, or they automatically recommended this next highlight. That was the exact highlight I wanted to watch, and it brought it for me right in front of my face so I didn’t have to go try to find it. I mean, you’re going to start to have those types of delightful experiences. [00:33:00] Then we’re going to get feedback on those where we, we see that the uptake on certain of these things is, you know, higher and higher. We’re going to double down on those things and build them out and, and move them even further. And you’ll start to see over time that we just add more and more of those things. And to the point where, you know, the, the media example I gave is kind of the, you know, the visionary state. But, you know, that’s, that’s not to say that that’s, you know, more than a couple years away. So we’re just going to have to keep an eye on how things kind of go and, and see where we go from there.  

AJ Maestas: You know, when we first met and, and got the chance to work together, MLB was doing a lot of youth development, especially in the inner city, you know, with outcomes intended, like basically bringing the game back into the city diversity and it hasn’t come up in the last couple of years. I’m wondering what are the, have the tactics shifted away from that as it still important? We just did this Gen Z study, and I think you’ve seen some of the data, uh, I think it’s 19% of Gen Z sees themselves as a baseball fan versus 34% of. Other generations. And that’s, that’s not unique to baseball. Th this is a [00:34:00] overall challenge for sports right now. ESports and other time people are spending on, you know, these devices is, is a war that we’re not necessarily winning or even keeping up with. So, um, I don’t know if you mind sharing an update or any insight you can into that sort of, how are we pulling in the next generation of fans and how have the tactics shifted, let’s say in the last few years? 

Chris Marinak: Yeah, lemme dive into that. You know, I wanna, I have a sort of an interesting. Sort of point around your, to kind of dive into the stat that you laid out. Right? So I think we’ve all seen the stats that show Gen Z is, you know, identifies less as a sports fan than other generations, even at, at that age point. Look, I, I think there’s clearly hurdles. I’m not dismissing the hurdles. I would just. Say that I also think that sports is not reaching out to those fans in a way that makes them feel like they’re part of the community. Right. So we had a, you know, we had a ton of, you know, great things that happened this year. 

Like, I’m just thinking off the top of my head, you know, Fernando Tiz had this viral bat flip moment, um, in the postseason this year that got a ton of buzz. I mean, I think it had like 20 million views on, on the social [00:35:00] platforms or whatever. So you start to dig into that a little bit. And you know, I bet if you asked, you know, gen Z, did you see that, that bad flip moment, you know, you’d have a hot huge percentage of people that said that they saw it or they engaged it it, or they thought it was interesting. Right? Then if you ask those same people, are you a sports fan? They’re like, well, no, I’m not a sports fan. I didn’t go to a game, or I didn’t, you know, I don’t have cable tv, so I didn’t. Watch on a nightly basis. So, you know, I’m not a fan. No, you can’t think that I’m a fan. And I think part of us, part of what we have to do with this, this audience is try to educate them around what it means to be a fan and not try to give them this high threshold of like, yeah, you got to watch, you know, a game for three hours every night of your favorite team for 162 nights a year to consider yourself a fan. 

There’s lots of ways to be a sports fan. There’s lots of ways to consume our content and we’re making that content available for you guys to do that. And by just consuming it. In the normal platforms that you’re on and you’re interested in, that’s being a sports fan, you get credit for that, you know, we’ll take you. And I think there’s a little bit of that going on that’ll sort itself out over time. So, just, [00:36:00] just one aside there, that I think as an industry, you know, we need to pay more attention to some of these types of metrics because this, this generation is different. And to the extent you’re asking them the same question you asked other generations, it just, it can make them feel like they’re not included. 

And I think we have to do a better job of including that generation. To your question around participation. We’ve been on that as a huge factor for sports fandom. You know, going back, like you said, 5, 6, 7 years now, and you know, and a lot of the research that we’ve done, it shows that probably the biggest driver of someone being a sports fan is whether they played as a kid. And not only that. What’s interesting, I’d have to pull the exact metric, but I think it’s, I mean, I think it’s something like 50%. Uh uh, someone whose parents played little league or higher, their children are 50% more likely to be baseball fans than someone who didn’t play. And so it’s not only that it’s you and whether you’re going to be a fan, it’s also whether you’re. Children, your next generation is going to be a fan. And so I think it’s this, it’s just this [00:37:00] life cycle of the more that you can get people to play and be involved in the sport that pays dividends for, you know, multiple generations. And so we’re absolutely committed to that. You know, the biggest innovation that we had in that space was this campaign that we called Play Ball. 

It sort of is, is in a similar vein that I sort of started with, which is that, you know, you don’t have to sign up for a team, play a 20 game schedule, go find nine guys in an umpire to be a baseball player. There’s a lot of ways you can be a baseball player. A lot like the ways that we played, you know, wiffle ball, stick ball, playing catch in the backyard. I mean, I think a lot of people start to feel like. Well, you know, I got to pay $10,000 a year to be on a travel team, or I’m not a baseball player. Right? And so they feel like they’re being left out of being a, a, a player. And I think what we want to say to our fans, our young people is that, Hey, I get it. You know, not everybody can, has the time or availability capability to play, you know, a full season. To travel to, you know, potentially go to a batting cage or get specialized instruction and that’s fine. You know, we’re not saying that that needs [00:38:00] to be what every person needs to do. Just if you have a glove and a ball and you can find somebody to play with, you’re a baseball player, you know, go in the backyard and play catch. 

You know, go play home run derby with a $10 whiffle ball set. So those are the types of things that we’re emphasizing and we are doing a lot as well with. Getting baseball programming into schools, you know, both domestically and internationally. And so I think there’s a lot to come there, you know, in terms of educating people. But there’s no question, you know, the number one thing you can do as a sports property is to get people to experience your game, learn about it, play it themselves, and build that love and that passion through being on the field. And again, that’ll carry through generations to come.  

AJ Maestas: So you’re a baseball purist, I assume you played at UVA, you were a pitcher, correct? If I remember. 

Chris Marinak: Yeah. Yeah,  

AJ Maestas: Anything from your playing days that stands out to you? I mean, was there a moment that you knew you were lifelong committed to this game and it led to you being in the seat you’re sitting in right now?  

Chris Marinak: Yeah, I mean, certainly, like I said, being a player and, and playing in college. I mean, it just, it, you know, it gives you that sort of insight and that perspective into [00:39:00] the game and passion for the sport. I think. Probably what got me into working in baseball from a career standpoint was when I got done playing in high school, I, I also, I was working and I in financial services and then I was also coaching high school kind of volun on a volunteer basis. You know, just helping out at the local high school pitching coach, you know, just loved being out on the field. And I was at, at some point I was spending more time on the field. For free than I was at the office getting paid and I said, you know, can’t we bring these two together here? That was, I think, an an interesting insight that I had in my career and this idea that if you do something that you really are interested and you care about and you enjoy, it doesn’t feel like work. You know, it doesn’t feel like you’re clock in that extra hour just to clock your paycheck and you know. Slog the hours. You’re, you’re doing the work because you think there’s gonna be a positive outcome for something that you believe in.  

AJ Maestas: You’re a computer science engineering undergrad at a great, you know, university. You could have made money in a lot of ways. You were, you went to Harvard Business School, right? I I imagine [00:40:00] that you had some pretty lucrative opportunities to do something other than fighting your way into baseball, coming outta business school. So, uh, good for you. ’cause I, I, I just haven’t seen that sacrifice fail to pay off. If you could trade places, uh, with anyone for a day, anybody, a player, a coach, an executive, uh, who would it be?  

Chris Marinak: Good question. I, I would say, um, I’ve said this one a couple times in the past, but I still haven’t had a chance to meet him, mark Cuban. I’ve had a, I’ve had an opportunity to kind of run into a lot of owners, a lot of executives in, in sports and you know, I even, I’ve been in, you know, I think he’s been at the Sloan conference a number of times, just, it’s just been one of those guys that I’ve never had a chance to run into. And, you know, every time I see Mark, whether it’s on television or just discussing an issue, I always feel like it’s educated. And he is passionate about it, and I just have a lot of respect for kind of the philosophy that he has in terms of his life and, and the sports world. So. It’d be great to meet him at some point. I’m sure at some point along the road I’ll get to shake hands with him. So if we ever get back to seeing people in person, we’ll see how it goes.  

AJ Maestas: I, I agree with that. I [00:41:00] love his fresh perspective and he is not afraid to be wrong. Right. Or to learn. You know, he’s, he’s, you can tell he is naturally curious. He, um, I doubt this is true, uh, anymore, but when I was contemplating going back to business school, uh, I sent him an email and, and apparently at that time at least, he responded to all emails, if you can believe that. So maybe you should just send him a note. Who knows? Who knows, right? Leading strategy and operations for baseball. I can’t help but ask, uh, what you. What you foresee for, uh, Theo Epstein in his role with baseball, as I understand he’s going to be a part of helping you with the future of the game. Correct?  

Chris Marinak: Yeah. Theo, um, just joined as sort of a consultant thinking about, you know, the long-term future of the game, particularly on the field and, um. I’ve had a number of chances to interact with him already, and, and, you know, I’ve known Theo for a long time. He is just a really smart, thoughtful person. Has a real passion for the game, love for the sport, and look for us in the league office. You know, we don’t, we don’t have a roster, you know, we don’t have, we don’t play games. And so it’s [00:42:00] nice to have somebody who’s actually been out there, you know, trying to win and be competitive on the field and understanding the competitive dynamic and being able to take that perspective into the big picture. Thinking about the development of the sport. Um, and so Theo’s committed to doing that. He’s got a lot of great ideas. We’ll see, you know, what he sort of comes up with, you know, just in terms of thinking about the, the future of the sport. Um, but, you know, I’m optimistic that Theo’s gonna add a lot of value to how we develop the sport, grow the game, and, you know, couldn’t think of a better person, you know, with better background, obviously, um, future Hall of Famer and Guy that’s just, you know, contributed so much to the sport. So excited to have a chance to work closely with him on this and. Looking forward to seeing kind of what he comes up with.  

AJ Maestas: And it can’t hurt to be closer to the stuff that’s happening on the field. Right. I, I have to assume that’s, well, I know that that’s a hurdle that you have to clear to move.  

Chris Marinak: Yep.  

AJ Maestas: You know, the game forward. So, no question. Just a couple quick hitters, just for fun. What is the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?  

Chris Marinak: [00:43:00] Interest so that, that kind of goes back to what we talked about a, a few minutes ago, which is, um, when you’re thinking about your career, do something that you’re passionate about and that you really enjoy, and then it won’t feel like work. And, and the rest of the rest of it’ll take care of itself. You know, how, how you, how quickly you get promoted, what opportunities you get. If you’re doing something that you really care about, you’re going to be successful in it. You’re going to commit the energy to it and. All the other opportunities that are on the side of that will all fall into place and, and things will work out. So, and that’s certainly been the case for me, and I can attest to that. And I, I think it’s good advice, particularly for younger people, you know, just getting started in their career.  

AJ Maestas: Well, assuming baseball is your top passion, that it’s your hobby, uh, obviously, is there anything else? What, what don’t we know about you as far as passions and interests outside of baseball? 

Chris Marinak: The thing I like to do the most is play softball, which is sort of an ancillary, uh, connection to baseball. Another thing I didn’t get to do last year, unfortunately, you know, for the first time and who knows how long, so we have a great softball team at our office and play [00:44:00] with a, I’ve played with, you know, friends from college and some of the New York City softball leagues are probably like the most competitive in the world. I mean, we’ve played against. Teams that have all college, former college and pro players. And it’s, it’s some of the, the competition probably, as you would expect in New York City is, is a little crazy, but it’s, uh, it’s been a lot of fun. I love doing that. Love going to the beach, spending time with the family. I mean all that kind of stuff. I mean, now, you know, with the pandemic it’s been great to spend a little bit more time with, with the family and with the kids and have some dinners at home and that type of thing, which I’ve appreciated. So, you know, it’s been a tough year with the pandemic, but those are the types of things that, you know, at least you feel thankful for, that you get an opportunity to do. And uh, I’ve enjoyed that for sure.  

AJ Maestas: I, I love that you still play softball. I took a 10 year hiatus, and this Thursday I play in my first game in a, a long time. One of the benefits of being out here in, uh, Arizona, I guess, is that, uh, things are a little more open than, uh, yeah. Most, most of the world, uh, for better or for worse, right? So it is what it. Last question [00:45:00] is, is there anything you consider like a great life hack that you could share with us, you know, some small investment you make that yields incredible return on your health or happiness or success?  

Chris Marinak: This is a little bit of a, maybe a, a weird one, but, uh, buy, buy good lighting for your, uh, for your home office setup is my, one of my best recommendations. I got like, uh, three or four of these, like different office lights and so I can, I can zoom from anywhere whenever my kids break in, if I have to pivot and go somewhere else. I got my virtual background here and I can, I can get my office going anywhere. So for like $10, you can get a bunch of these. Lights and feel like you’re right at home. So I don’t know if that’s, uh, I don’t know. People probably have those at this point. That might be old news. But, uh, I’ve, I’ve definitely found that having, having a good light for your office set up is, uh, is an essential, and I have a number of them.  

AJ Maestas: Well, I love that your background’s virtual. You. Your real office is a photo virtually behind you right now. That’s really smart. This is real. This is [00:46:00] like real life here. Uh, but I’m in too many options, right? Uh, but that’s a good idea. I don’t even have an office anymore, to be perfectly honest. Well, I’m, I’m really grateful you joined us. I, I’m really grateful for your time and I’m also grateful for the work that you’re doing. For baseball, it’s, uh, been a true pleasure to work with you and, and get to know you better. And, uh, thank you for joining me. Yeah,  

Chris Marinak: I appreciate you having me. It was a lot of fun and, uh, look forward to seeing this and others as they come out, um, over the course of the year. 

AJ Maestas: If you’d like to join the conversation, email us at info INFO@NVGT.com or check out our website @NVGT.com. I’m AJ Maestas. Join us again next week for Navigating Sports [00:47:00] Business.