Podcast Alert: David Dunn – Athletes First

Transcript

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Dave Dunn: [00:00:00] You get these guys young and they’re a blank slate. Going through the draft, through negotiations, through marriages, kids, divorces, deaths in the family, injuries, highs and lows, you get really close to them, and that’s really rewarding to me. 

AJ Maestas: Hello and welcome to the Navigating Sports Business Podcast. I’m your host, AJ Maestas, founder of Navigate, a data-driven consulting firm guiding major strategies and decisions in sports and entertainment. We started this podcast hoping to share the interesting stories and experiences of the amazing people we get to work with at Navigate. 

And even though they’re visionaries and famous in many instances, their true stories aren’t often heard since they’re not on the playing field. Our hope is you get to know them better and learn from them as we have.[00:01:00]  

Today, I’m happy to be joined by Dave Dunn, founder and CEO of Athletes First. Dave has signed the largest deal in NFL history eight times. That is ridiculous. Congratulations. He has represented at various times the highest paid quarterback, running back, 13 different positions to, just to make this more succinct. 

You’ve worked with 17 Hall of Famers, seven Super Bowl MVPs, eight Heisman Trophy winners, and eight Walter Payton Men of the Year, and I believe seven first overall picks in the NFL, and I’m just talking players. 

Dave Dunn: So you know what that means, AJ? It means I’m old. 

AJ Maestas: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. 

Dave Dunn: It’s like I told one of my clients, they start calling you a legend, you’re down and out. 

AJ Maestas: Oh, are trying to show you the door? And you’d have to be old and extremely lucky for all those things to be true, so we’ll be honest, Dave. Like this is it’s an unmatched resume. 

How does that even happen? How on earth? 

Dave Dunn: It’s like we’re, it’s like you. You prepare for things in life and I’ve talked with a lot of my clients [00:02:00] and, coaching players, and it’s all the same thing. A lot of things have to happen for Justin Herbert to be where he is. 

Talent for sure but, there’s just a lot of luck of being seen by the right people and staying healthy, and it’s just taking advantage of opportunities when they arise, really, and connecting with people like you. 

AJ Maestas: Oh, it’s– You’re being kind. Okay. So I know you’ll be, like, at least a little embarrassed from this, but I just can’t help but bring it up. 

Jerry Maguire is what most people have as an image of a an agent. Yep. And I know Tom Cruise and, followed you around for a while at the office as they were preparing for the movie. Yeah. Your core origin story is the story of Jerry Maguire. So I don’t know, anything you’re willing to share with us or, yeah, en-enlighten us on the experience. 

Dave Dunn: My life compared to Jerry Maguire is like a normal stockbroker’s life compared to The Wolf of Wall Street,. it’s entertaining the way that they did it, but [00:03:00] obviously following me around, as I, solve goofy problems for my clients wouldn’t be the most exciting things to do. 

And I have never, I’ve never left a, a building with Renée Zellweger and a fish and, like I’ve never had anybody complete me. At least- 

AJ Maestas: You’re telling me this is Hollywood? 

Dave Dunn: So yeah it’s, there, there’s a difference there. There are some things that caught me as a backstory. 

Cameron Crowe who produced and directed the film, he also did Fast Times at Ridgemont High, where he became a student at that high school and engrossed himself in that experience, and he does that in all of his movies, and he did that with Cuba Gooding and Tom Cruise here. So they did shadow us. That was the year that Kajana Carter was coming out, and that was sort of Cuba’s muse. 

And really down to the last detail. It’s unsettling having Tom Cruise in your office. Your wife calls and you feel like, “Hello, dear. How are you?” Think about that a little [00:04:00] bit. It was a fun time. Some things that caught me that where he loses the number one pick on the eve of the draft that’s one of those shoot, that could happen. 

AJ Maestas: That’s awful. 

Dave Dunn: I’ve gone into drafts since then, it’s you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna do this right. So there, there are some realities to it. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun but it’s a movie. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. That’s cool. That’s very cool. Okay. Insider tip tells me Ted had to buy you a briefcase ’cause you were using a Ralph’s shopping bag to carry. 

Dave Dunn: We used a Ralph’s shopping bag. To my discredit Ted Roth is, he’s a friend of ours, and Pat Kilkenny’s, of course. Yeah … and yeah, I I’m not known for my for being too formal. I have flip-flops on here and I bring my dog to the office on most days, so that’s if I’m gonna work long hours, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be comfortable. 

And yeah, I briefcases just don’t, aren’t part of my repertoire. 

AJ Maestas: That’s all right. I agree. I appreciate that. And you’re living the California lifestyle, right? So do you really [00:05:00] have to… yeah. Yeah, that’s fair. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. I’m living the the laid back, messed up lifestyle probably. 

AJ Maestas: I think most people would be pretty jealous. Yeah. It might look good on TV to wear a suit, but really, every day- jumping on planes. So you were business partners, and I’ll move on from all your former business partners, but your business partner with Leigh Steinberg, he goes on to serve prison time for tax evasion. 

Jeff Moorad, who goes on to own the San Diego Padres, become a team owner. You all have this sort of breakup, that’s reflected in the movie and what have you. Is there, i-is there anything you can share with us? When you reflect back on that you start your business and you go on to have this– you’re gonna be embarrassed, but, you’ve had a Hall of Fame athlete representation career. 

You’re a super agent, right? No one has represented as many dollars as you have- Okay, cut it out … in the NFL. So what, you gotta, what, w-were you the engine? What happened? ‘Cause everyone went on to have great success, even comeback stories. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. As you live life day to day, right? 

And Leigh and Jeff were great, and they gave me a chance [00:06:00] in the early ’90s to, to work with them. And, as you’ve alluded to, it was a dream job. You’re going to football games for a living and dealing with people that you really admire in the sport. So it was it was awfully hard at the end of this at the end of a decade with Leigh to to pick up and go. 

But what happened was I– Drew Bledsoe called me in, right after the 2000 season, and he asked me to come up and visit with him in Portland. I didn’t sus-really suspect anything. He and his wife sat me down in a bar and told me that if I didn’t leave, that he would leave and others would too. Why were they gonna do that? 

They were gonna do that because, for a few reasons. One, one was that we had just been bought in total by a Canadian insurance financial management group Asante was the name. [00:07:00] And they wanted us, as part of the purchase, to guide our athletes to their services. I didn’t really feel great about that I didn’t know anything about them, so how can I guide people to them? 

And then there were just some internal things that, that made people uneasy. So Brian Murphy and I decided to leave in early 2001 and we took my assistant, that was all. We went to my house and- Renays Delaware, obviously. No. Yeah. No fish. I had dogs. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Oh, I have a fish. Yeah. All right. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. But yeah, we went to my house and over the next few days all of the football staff at Steinberg, Murren & Dunn came over and- and probably over the next few weeks, 90% of the clients came over. 

AJ Maestas: Oh, they had to be pissed then, huh? 

Dave Dunn: So they were angry. Both of how we just described it is much below how they really felt, so [00:08:00] we went into this long for me at least at the time, year and a half worth of litigation where, it’s like you see in the movies, like Rainmaker. 

We were the little guy and, surviving on whatever I had in the bank and and they were trying to get us to come back and, just trying to, to turn the tide back. And for whatever reason, I, Brian and I stuck to our guns. I the NFL PA’s lawyer testified for us during the trial, but after the trial, there was a ver- a verdict against us for only $44 million. 

I think actually it was $49 million, which I didn’t have, and still don’t. 

AJ Maestas: Oh, you didn’t, huh? 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. No, I still don’t. And that caused the NFL PA to come after me a little bit reluctantly because they were on my side in the trial. Our theory being that not to go into it too much, our th-theory being that human beings can choose who they want to help them out, right?[00:09:00]  

Period. The allegation was they stole clients. Right … you can’t steal, they, they- 

AJ Maestas: I assume you still collected the commissions off of the deals that were already signed at that time? 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. They, yeah. Yeah. And that’s why we won on appeal. And I think that the nice sort of wrap up to it, The bow, if you will, on the box is that there were two people who were my prosecutors back then, reluctant though they might have been, ’cause, I was established and I represented good guys, but other agents were saying, “Look what he did. 

You need to do something to him.” And Trace Armstrong was the president of the Players Association at the time, just saying, “Listen I, it’s too big of a wave here, from the other agents.” And Jeffrey Kessler was the guy arguing, in court that I should, something should happen to me. 

Fast-forward, just not very much after that Jeff Kessler called. And Jeff [00:10:00] Kessler, for background, is, as the foremost sports labor attorney in the country. He’s just, he’s that guy. He’s he’s the face, he’s the guy walking out of the court, courtroom or the negotiations with the NFLPA or the NBPA or what have you. 

He called me and said, “Hey, I, I know that I was rough on you in the Players Association process, but, my son’s with CAA, and he’d like to move over to you. Can you hire him?” It’s he said it was nothing personal back then, and I agree with you. 

It was nothing personal. It was like, it was personal to me. I ended up hiring Andrew Kessler, his son, who’s just been a wonderful hire. He’s just a really smart guy. He adds a component to us that’s not flip-flops and golden retrievers at the office. And he has a great client base, including Daniel Jones and, a bunch of other guys. 

So I’m really glad I did it. And Trace Armstrong, who was my other sort of prosecutor joined us as a, he was with CAA as well, and [00:11:00] he joined us almost a decade ago, to– he came over from CAA, and now he’s our, leads our coaching division. 

AJ Maestas: What an endorsement.. So you’re telling me the lead, two lead prosecutors against you in that ruling came to work for you? 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. One, one came to work for me, and the other one’s son. Yeah, give you his firstborn. It was politics, and it was the a necessary, slap on the list to on the wrist to them. 

And it was really, and this had nothing to do with me, it had to do with people supporting me, Whether it be clients or my staff. While we were going through all this, we didn’t lose anybody. Nobody. And we added people like Ray Lewis and Carson Palmer and, and, not minor league players. 

And I think AJ a– as I grow older, the things that my parents said, “Hey, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” I w- you know, I really am thankful for that time now, ’cause it’s really– it’s just– it was really difficult at the time. You lived day to day on the [00:12:00] edge because I was the source of economics for my staff, there was that pressure. It was just a weird time, and it makes you appreciate what you have you know, for sure. And it, I guess it makes you more confident too, like that I was in a lot worse situation than this, and we thrived. 

AJ Maestas: No, that’s interesting. There’s a kind of a concept around negative framing and visualization where you say “Look how bad this could be,” what have you. 

And, there’s a question we ask at a lot of business dinners, which is, tell us about your greatest achievement or what you’re most proud of. We change it up. But it almost always starts with someone going to the valley, this dark point. 

This breakup, this legal fight, and then of course they tell you what they’re most proud of. Isn’t that interesting? But I appreciate your honesty in sharing that. So if it were to happen again tomorrow how do you get yourself through it? Is there a practice? Is there– I don’t know, is there something you leaned on? 

Dave Dunn: I wish I could come up with something really witty. It’s just– I remember I was in Cleveland when the verdict came down, and I had a flight, back, [00:13:00] and it was just numb. I remember just being on the plane, ’cause, it’s $49 million is a lot of money. And I knew that it wasn’t you know, I knew that it would drift away in some, by some mechanism. 

But it certainly wasn’t a-an apex of of w- you know, of my life or profession. And it’s just– I it’s funny. I got back, my wife and I were like, “Oh, geez,” “What are we gonna do?” And I woke up the next day, went to work, and it kept going, like they, my clients were playing that weekend and it’s just a day-to-day thing. 

Just keep, one step in front of the other. I think it’s my clients who deal with injuries all the time it’s the same thing, Micah Parsons is gonna have to have that attitude. Just going through this next year, selling my homes, and they’ll have it, and they’re the best at what they do for a reason. 

But [00:14:00] it’s that, just that one day at a time. And I’m sure you’ve been through things like that too, where you just, if it’s not life and death you can deal with it. Go off that straight line so dramatically all the time. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Yeah. A best friend from college and I invested in a business, venture style, right? 

Which is- Yeah … always a bad idea. It’s- Yeah … an economic category that consistently does not work out. But and this one didn’t do as well. Just to make sure everybody knows this was a failure. But he became really close with the founder. It was one of those food service businesses. 

Anyway, he gave him a really cool framed print that sort of said, “Success, what people think,” and it’s this, up and to the right, to the northeast, sort of arrow. And then this squiggly line, which is a roller coaster ride and loop-de-loops and what have you, and he said, “What it really, what it’s really like.” 

And I think about that all the time when someone shares a story like this, thinking, this is reality. There, there’s no one who just follows a straight line. So yeah. 

Dave Dunn: Everybody has their thing and, you’re fortunate enough to be around, I’m fortunate enough [00:15:00] to represent some of the luckiest, wealthiest, most known, people in the country, right? 

Yeah. And they all have their things, nobody’s life is is perfect or close to it, and you see it by all the mental health issues these, that you hear about out there. There, there are… Once you achieve that, Justin Herbert and I were talking about this once. 

Once you achieve that thing, and so he gets his deal. It’s not like he rolls around in his money all the time. You know there, it’s like he doesn’t think about it at all, especially him, at all. He doesn’t even spend it. And so that’s not a non-thing. And the, he doesn’t really like the, any adulation or exposure. 

So that’s not a thing. He just likes the game. Or he wouldn’t have played it with a glove this year, it’s just interesting how, there is a perception of the baller’s perception. Everybody’s hanging out and having fun and life is great. 

Every, [00:16:00] again, everybody’s got a thing. 

AJ Maestas: I suspect you don’t reach this level unless it’s your craft and you’re super committed to it, and you’d have been doing that independent of the money, or at least at some level, right? ‘Cause if I remember, he was lightly recruited, if I remember. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah, he was. There was one, one offer. Yeah. Local, a local Eugene kid, right? 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Pretty crazy story. You must have other stories like that, other client stories of the recruitment, the process, the families. I’m looking through the list of names, it’s disturbing here the people that you work with. 

Any, anything that you wanna entertain us with any of your favorites? 

Dave Dunn: That’s the best part I would have to say that, is that, if you ask me what the best parts of what I do are I would say one is the, one of them is the relationship part, where with players, you know, and with NIL it’s even earlier, but with players you’re getting them in, out of school. 

They’re 20, 21-year-olds. Christian Palmer didn’t know how to write a check. And I probably didn’t at that, stage either. It’s just he knows how to [00:17:00] write one now. Having just won the state championship at Santa Margarita coaching his kids. But he, it’s, you get these guys young and and they’re a blank slate. 

And through going through the draft through negotiations, through marriages, kids, divorces, deaths in the family injuries, highs and lows, you get close to them. You’re, you get really close to them. And that’s really rewarding to me. So when I see, someone, Nick Foles who goes back and forth and battles and battles, and then he’s at the top of this, on a podium holding up a trophy, it’s okay, that’s, he went through it all, but I watched it pretty closely, and it’s just fun to go f- to from a human standpoint to have that connection where, if you’re, if Aaron or Justin or anybody [00:18:00] like, that I work with is in that same position, I’ll be just, I’ll just be bawling. My kids will laugh at me. 

AJ Maestas: I was just gonna say, yeah, I feel bad to keep calling back to Jerry Maguire, but I’m picturing this sort of, you’ve gotta be kidding me. You lived it with him and you’re seeing this pinnacle moment in life, and you’ve played before, so yeah. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah, I always cry. My kids make fun of me, mate. They, they– Whenever there’s a sad movie on, they always look at me and I’m always doing that. It’s “Dad, I see you.” 

“You’re crying, I can tell.” I think the second thing is that, these guys making an inordinate amount of money, and they are stupidly recognized, right? They throw a weird– like Drew Bledsoe, he was honored once in in New England, and the governor was there and Robert Kraft was there, and they all said, “Oh, he’s the best guy ever,” and they all gave speeches. 

And Drew got up there and he said, “You know what I do for a living? I throw a weirdly shaped thing made out of an animal’s fur a little bit straighter, a [00:19:00] little bit further than the next guy.” Is that socially beneficial in and of itself? Not at all. It’s just a weird trait that this society values for some reason. 

And his point was, “Don’t honor me,” I make a bunch of money and I have an obligation to give back.” And so it’s really cool seeing seeing the difference that, the guys make. Ward Donahue, no relation was giving away 10, 15 houses a year for 20-some years, where– And being there when people are given the keys to a house, I’m gonna start crying. 

It’s pretty special. And at the end of the day, I remember I went to an appearance with Steve Young where he thought it was gonna be for, I think, Standard Oil, and it ended up being all the scholarship recipients. I think there were like 400 of them. 

They all came up to him with flowers and they hugged him, and he was crying, and I was crying for him. And it’s that’s a lot. He said on the drive [00:20:00] back, he said, “That’s a lot more important than the extra million dollars you got me for this,” saying “This is like real stuff, in life.” 

The amount of good they can do in the world is pretty cool. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah, I agree with that. I’m often critical of athletes and sports teams, believing. Yeah, what you said is like how, what is this esoteric skill, and everyone’s paying attention, and what an unbelievable stage and opportunity you have to make a difference in the world- and how influential you are. Everyone’s watching and I’m glad to hear that out of some of your guys, really. That’s really cool. Yeah. That’s really cool. 

Dave Dunn: And it helps you, the more you do and I realized this sort of as it went along, you more, the more you do during your career in your community, the more they like you and the easier the transition is afterwards from a business standpoint and human standpoint, they just like you more. 

So Drew doing all the right things. John Lynch is a perfect example. He’s just always– John Lynch is the, he’s just the guy that’s doing the right thing. It’s him. [00:21:00] And that just endears. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. He’s still a GM, right? Or is he president anymore? 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. Out of nowhere to his benefit, he was the first guy that Fox called for, for that. 

And, and he’s doing fantastically well, where he is. So he’s that, It’s really neat to see guys embrace their futures afterwards. Steve Young makes more money now than he ever made playing through his businesses. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Pretty crazy, right? 

Yeah. Does, did you ever look at the current pay structure of television. 

Dave Dunn: Oh, they all do … and say- yeah. Yeah, all the old guys, I would. And, and as I tell the new guys, “You’re gonna be doing that in 10 years to somebody else. Someone’s gonna be making $100 million a year, and you’re gonna…” 

It is crazy how much money it is though. Yeah. It’s hard to conceptualize after you do some of these deals. Justin Herbert’s just 300 and something million dollars. That’s… they always say that’s institutional,” or whatever generational. 

It’s more than generational. It’s a lot of generations- Yeah … and it’s generational. It’s just a really, it’s such an odd thing that [00:22:00] these guys get paid so much money for doing this. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m really glad that you get a percent of it. 

Dave Dunn: So are my kids. It’s a very small percentage. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah, exactly. No it is pretty ridiculous. It tells you what we value and where we spend our time, but that’s why I think it’s such a great stage, such a great mega fight. No doubt. No. I mean- Yeah … and there are benefits. I really believe strongly in the community and the bonding and, the almost, nationalism that’s in fandom that bonds communities, cities, et cetera, states. Hey we’ve been talking recently about a high school kid. I’m sure we shouldn’t talk about him very specifically, but I just have to bring it up because but, your world, I imagine that you were seeing up-and-coming college stars and then interviewing with them for most of your career. 

And now, we’re talking about this kid who’s won, the top prestigious award. He’s a junior. I mean- Oh, he’s that guy, right? .. Yeah there’s– People are bombarding him, that, that’s right, and his family, and they don’t know what to do. What tell me about recruiting now. Are you out there soliciting high school [00:23:00] kids ’cause you see they’re a future NFL player? 

Dave Dunn: From a business standpoint, it’s all gone crazy, right? So it used to be that there were really specific rules depending on the sport. For football, you can’t talk to anybody until they’re after a certain point of their junior year, which was fine with me. I loved it, I talked with Carson Palmer right after he won the- Heisman Trophy and Justin Herbert right after he won the Rose Bowl, signed him and had wonderful relationships with him. 

And it’s a, so it’s not like I needed to be there for all that time. They certainly didn’t need me. But now it’s because of the NIL landscape, pretty soon I’m gonna be going to maternity wards and, saying, that guy looks big. Look at his hands.” Cause it’s, it’s getting crazy. 

It’s a weird dynamic because, I– one thing that I like about representing coaches is that the substance of what I talk about is more and more my age. I’m not talking about rims on [00:24:00] Escalades with Dana Altman at Oregon, right? So it’s just, it’s just my age, their age, et cetera. 

It’s natural. With the NIL thing you’re going way, you’re much deeper, and so there needs to be, … There are a bunch of dynamics. There you need to have a younger person, that, that is the connector, the grinder. You need to have a bunch of people in the office making cold calls, for NIL deals and that type of thing. 

So the staffing becomes different. And now because the economics are so significant, there are guys that glom onto these young guys like our guy the guy that we’ve been talking about, who are just there, and they and they wa- then they want a piece. And so there are layers to that. 

There’s the families, they’re generally more involved for a high school player than they are for a college player. College players are a little bit more, they have a little bit more wherewithal. It’s a different dynamic for sure. And it’s not gonna get, [00:25:00] it’s not gonna go the other way. 

It’s just gonna get younger and younger. The guy that we’re talking about, it’ll be his freshman year, and if he’s that easy to spot then in basketball it’s even worse ’cause they are easier to spot, enough guys with 11, yeah. At 13 then they’re probably and I don’t know, like it’s good and bad. Economically it’s great. And that can’t be, that can’t be diminished. Like you can criticize it all you want, but for these young men and their families it’s making a big difference, and it’s coming from corporations and schools and entities that have it to these kids who are after all the product. 

So it makes sense. Yeah. It’s also weird. It’s just a weird thing. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Yeah do you, would you prefer there to be a union, collective bargaining, and rules around all this so that there was a certain window before… I don’t know. You know what I’m saying? I know the percentages are much higher in some of these NIL deals and some of these kids and stuff like that, ’cause there is no, it’s Wild West. 

But I’m thinking your old life was pretty [00:26:00] nice. You meet the kid at the their- with that summit of their college experience, they have to- 

Dave Dunn: Yeah, you don’t have to live through that… some of these guys are not gonna make it, right? And so we’ll sign a guy as a high school player, and, through bad luck or injury or bad performance, they don’t ma- they don’t make it, and they’re still with ours, right? And you’ve had to carry them, through that time from a business standpoint. 

Yeah I love… the more rules, the better for me selfishly, in our firm selfishly. Because we’re bigger, and we’re like the big ship in the ocean. So we’ll get the, we’ll get more NIL, and this sounds, this sounds bad, but it’s reality. Because, if CAA and us and other, larger entities will by just the nature of things attract people who are safer, right? 

Than, Joe Blow down the street. And usually rules will make that even, will protect us even more, and as you alluded to reduce the necessary work. ‘Cause now we do have to get [00:27:00] in and compete- Yeah … for the, for guys like the one we’ve been discussing. 

AJ Maestas: And not just compete, but rogue guess, right? And, it’s just all these intermediaries and stuff and yeah.  

Dave Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. 

AJ Maestas: All right. All right. I’ve got some rapid fire questions to wrap things up with you but is any question for me, anything I could do for you here? 

Dave Dunn: No, that was fun when we were in Las Vegas. I really enjoy the way you do business and your company’s fantastic. 

AJ Maestas: Oh, thank you. So kind. 

Dave Dunn: I’m very serious. 

AJ Maestas: We had one of those dinners where I have to pinch myself sometimes. Dozen of us sitting around that table. It was like a who’s who, and, the sphere’s a new climate. I hope that’s not like a shameless plug. It’s just the reality. But you gotta go. It’s unbelievable, and we all got to do the super-duper VIP behind the velvet rope type. Seeing the bones of the building and everything that was just What a ridiculous, unbelievable thing. 

Dave Dunn: It was, the wind’s blowing from the Oz. We’re up on the outside scaffold. It was fun, so thanks. More of those experiences. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Okay, I’ve got more. I’ve got more. [00:28:00] I’m gonna remember that now. 

We’re gonna do a charity party here this spring. We’re gonna copy- Pat Kilkenny and his generosity. So April 30th- May 1st, put that down in Scottsdale if I can convince you to come out here for some golf and good times. Okay, rapid fire questions. You ready? 

Dave Dunn: Sure, bring it. 

AJ Maestas: Favorite place to travel? 

Dave Dunn: Oh, favorite place to travel. Probably two. Hawaii, Maui is– I’ve been to the same set of condos in Maui literally 50-plus times, so you know, it’s one of my kids have been there 20 or 30 times, so it’s our spot, right? So that’s one. And then just Europe, like especially Switzerland, but Europe just is always I don’t know, just intrigued me. 

AJ Maestas: Why Switzerland? 

Dave Dunn: Just I think it’s the natural beauty, the, the food, the, the natural beauty’s out of control though. Like you just, like Lucerne is where I’ve gone a bunch and, you just look out the window and it’s “No, this is not Orange County.” 

AJ Maestas: Yeah, it is pretty beautiful. I agree. All the organizing bodies are there pretty special, pretty special [00:29:00] place. I went hiking there last summer. That was also incredible. Zermatt is one sort of center point to launch from, you can do these point-to-point hikes in all of the Alps where, you’ll end at a lodge and they’ll transport your luggage for you. 

That’s so cool. So you just keep progressing through these small villages and towns. It was, yeah. 

Dave Dunn: And the people are nice and they’re, I don’t know, it’s just a good vibe there. 

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Do you have a personal hero? 

Dave Dunn: Yeah, probably two. I would say one is my dad. My dad went to Cal undergrad, Cal Law School, worked for the same law firm for 50 years, and he was just like John Lindsay was the guy who d- always did the right thing. 

He was competitive. He had a great, he was president of the bar in his county. And he won a bunch of lawsuits. But he also, I think the biggest thing he taught me was to prioritize family always. So like he coached my teams and so I carried that from him. In a profession that doesn’t lend itself to that easily it’s, I’ve [00:30:00] enjoyed that. 

I think the other one, I represented John Wooden for the last 10, 15 years of his life. John Wooden, basketball. Through a connection through somebody in my office. It was one of the reasons I went to UCLA, like subconsciously at least. 

They were winning everything then. And just he was He’s like the Dalai Lama or something. Like he’s… You find yourself… We would meet quarterly with his son and daughter. I’d bring somebody with me, and always at his apartment. It hadn’t changed, he hadn’t moved, he still hadn’t made her side of the bed, his wife now, they named the court at UCLA after, the whole thing. And he’s just so virtuous. He’d have you walk in and he had books about Lincoln, like strewn about. And you’d find yourself asking him things like, I remember asking him once, “Who’s the best– Who do you think the best coach is now?” 

And at the time you figured he’d say Krzyzewski or Roy Williams or someone like that. And he paused, he said, [00:31:00] “I think it’d probably be the coach at a YMCA in an urban center getting more out of his players than any other.” It’s like, of course that’s the right answer. 

He just thinks of it differently, right? And through the late Bill Walton and others, like we just enjoyed Coach. He was just really fun to work with, and just not more than iconic, he was just a presence that like, and I learned so much from him. 

AJ Maestas: Broke your father’s heart, by the way, when you signed with UCLA instead of Cal? 

Dave Dunn: No, not really. My sister was, had already gone to UCLA, and she was ahead of me, and she was dating their kicker, I think, at the time. And yeah, it was closer. It was fine. It’s UC- We’ll blame her. 

AJ Maestas: We’ll blame her. That’s fine. Yeah. Best month of the year for sports fans? 

Dave Dunn: Yeah, that’s a good one. I think it’d be January. I think for [00:32:00] me and probably for sports fans, it’d be January, because for college football you’re getting the semis and the finals. 

For pro football, you’re getting all of the non-Super Bowl games, playoff games, which is the meat of it. The Super Bowl’s icing on the cake, at least to me. So you’re getting, you’re getting all those games and all the excitement. And then also with the league, you’re getting newness. 

You’re getting fired coaches, hired coaches, fired GMs, hired GMs. So see a lot of teams going through transitions, which is a busy time for me. I think April would be close, just ’cause the Masters and the Final Four and the draft maybe. June, especially this year with with the World Cup and with the US Open, and it’s also the basketball and NHL. 

So yeah. Anyway. Interesting. 

AJ Maestas: That, that, that reminds me, by the way if you get out here for the Fiesta Bowl, I’ll be there in Phoenix what have you. Okay, when they make the movie of [00:33:00] your life, who would you choose to play you? I’m assuming it’s not, I’m assuming it’s not Tom Cruise. 

Dave Dunn: What are you laughing at? 

AJ Maestas: I’d dress up. I know. I did, I thought about sourcing, though, from all the guys. I thought about sourcing some just opportunities to give you shit, but. 

Dave Dunn: Oh, I don’t know. Not Tom Cruise, probably. I don’t know. Kevin James. Kevin James. 

AJ Maestas: He’d be great. Yeah. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah, he’s laid back. He’s a good dude. 

AJ Maestas: You are laid back. You are fatherly. You are like a calming presence. I’m serious. 

Dave Dunn: I don’t know if he is, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I watched, I just watched “Paul Blart” with my son too, so that’s why I said. 

AJ Maestas: If you were not an NFL agent, what would you be doing? How would this life have turned out? 

Dave Dunn: I would’ve been I, when I graduated from law school, I was a litigator for a couple years, and I was fine. That was, This is better, for me at least. It’s better. But I would just enjoy it more. I think I would’ve enjoyed it. My sister’s a litigator, my dad’s a [00:34:00] litigator, so like it’s part of the thing, so I’m sure I would’ve done that. 

AJ Maestas: Okay. Okay. I’m so grateful for you coming on. It’s really fun to catch up with you- Yeah, no problem … and do it in a way that we get to share it with others. So really grateful for your time. 

Dave Dunn: Yeah. All good. Yeah. All good. 

AJ Maestas: For folks listening, any questions or comments, just reach out to us. My email is AJ@NVGT.com. You can also connect with us on my personal LinkedIn page or the Navigate page. But again, this is AJ Maestas with Navigating Sports Business joined by Dave Dunn. Thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. 

Dave Dunn: I enjoyed it. Thanks. Good. Take care, AJ. You too.