Podcast Alert: Justin Toman – PepsiCo

Transcript

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Justin Toman: [00:00:00] I’ll use halftime as the perfect example. We have this brand in Pepsi that’s really rooted in pop culture and music heritage, and this asset with the NFL, this platform, this halftime show platform that literally is the biggest cultural music moment of the year. And you put those two things together and it really is that perfect storm.

AJ Maestas: Hello, and welcome to the Navigating Sports Business podcast. I’m your host AJ Maestas, founder of Navigate, a data-driven consulting firm, guiding major strategies and decisions in sports and entertainment. We started this podcast hoping to share the interesting stories and experiences of the amazing people we get to work [00:01:00] with them.

And even though they’re visionaries and famous in many instances, their true stories aren’t often heard since they’re not on the playing field. Our hope is you get to know them better and learn from them as we have.

Today, I’m happy to be joined by Justin Toman. Head of sports marketing for Pepsi. How are you doing Justin?

Justin Toman: I’m good, AJ. How are you?

AJ Maestas: Good. Very good. I appreciate you joining me. It will be fun. And it’s really cool to be able to share your story.

Justin Toman: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me, and really happy to be a part of it.

AJ Maestas: Okay, cool.

Well, I’m going to leap right into when you were an athlete and you’re playing days, all right? As I understand it, you competed in the 2000 Olympic trials with a torn ACL and you’re coming off a national champion as an individual and team, I believe national champion at Michigan. So, I don’t know.

Do you mind telling us the story? I assume it’s a lifetime of work. It takes you to this moment, right?

Justin Toman: Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you for indulging me of my glory, my athletic glory days. [00:02:00] Appreciate it. It seems like a long time ago and I guess it now was 21 years ago. Yeah, so I was competing at the University of Michigan and also trying to make the 2000 Olympics, which were in Sydney, Australia.

And unfortunately, six months before the Olympic trials, when I was competing for college about a month before, three weeks before the Big Tens that year I tore my ACL during a vault. Just had a bad landing. And my ACL, my right knee just went, I think I’ll chalk it up to this stubborn ignorance of a 20 -year-old athlete, which is kind of, you know, you do this at all costs, you know, sacrifice your body for the goal kind of attitude, which I think a lot of people can relate to and yeah, I got several medical opinions, really, it was kind of the opinion that, that didn’t want it to stand in the way of me making a run at the Olympics.

You know, you only have so many shots of doing that.

AJ Maestas: Right.

Justin Toman: And a few, not all the opinions with some of them came back and said, yeah, you might be able to do it or it’s possible. We don’t recommend it. But if you really had to, you could maybe do it. Right. It was kind of like that. So, you’re saying there’s a chance, you know, mentality.

And as a [00:03:00] 20 -year-old, I took that you know, was very serious about my training, about the therapy. I mean, there’s a lot of rehab and, and leg strengthening that you can do to give yourself the most stable situation down there without that ligament, your knee is just unstable, but if you strengthen your hamstrings and do a lot of stuff.

You can at least help it. Doesn’t replace it and took a swing at it and, you know, happy and proud and I wouldn’t change it for anything. I’m happy I did it, but it was definitely that 20-year-old mentality of like, oh, well, I’ll risk long-term knee damage for a shot at the Olympic dream. Right. That was the prevailing mentality.

When you’re, when you’re that age, I guess.

AJ Maestas: Well, and I mean, you’re coming off an individual national championship. So, I assume that makes you one of the best in the world, right?

Justin Toman: I don’t know if I was the best in the world or in the country. You know, I was on the national team at one point. So, I guess I was in the top, 10 or 20 guys out there at the time.

But my M.O. Or my kind of brand and gymnastics was probably, I was decent. I’ve probably worked harder, kind of punch above my weight, so to speak. I probably shouldn’t have been in the position I was in, but I think I’ve worked pretty hard and stuck it out and overcame some injuries. But [00:04:00] by no means was I top of the top, but I made a good run at it.

And you know, I did compete at the Olympic trials with a torn ACL and missed it just by a hair. I was like the cutoff man, right at the top of. Seven make the team, and I was literally that next guy that didn’t make it. So, kind of walked away with, you know, obviously disappointed. But man, I had one of the best meets of my career at the Olympic trials and in a weird way, the injury really focused me more than I’d ever been focused.

And it’s almost like the mentality of, well, you’re going to walk on this high wire without a net. So, there’s really no room for error. So, with that mentality, you do one of two things. You either crumble and you fall, or you really get focused and dialed in and you take a really good shot at it. And I think fortunately for me, it was the latter and I was just the most, probably the most focused and the best prepared I’ve ever been mentally, physically obviously without the ligament of my knee, but other than that, I was the best prepared and I had a great meet and walked away with no regrets.

So, it was definitely an interesting time. And now my knees work great there, I had the surgery after that and still can walk so that’s always a plus

AJ Maestas: well, my version of the [00:05:00] story, because if you say it elevated your game, except for that torn ACL, my version is going to be that you would have made the team with ease and medaled, if it hadn’t been for a torn ACL, I don’t know.

I mean, for those of us who are not experts in gymnastics, I would assume that a torn ACL is pretty damaging, pretty damn limiting

Justin Toman: It is tough to overcome, and you think about the hard landings and take off in the vaulting in the floor exercises. The angles that you’re coming in and out of these, these skills with the slightest error, the slightest torque that wasn’t supposed to be there, you know, could probably end up in a tough spot for a knee that doesn’t have an ACL, you know, maybe it would have been on the team, maybe not, but no way to ever tell, but I definitely am proud of the shot I took.

And my claim to fame is the cut-off guy just, just missed it. You know, it could have been a contender.

AJ Maestas: What happens then though? I mean, the pinnacle is the Olympics, if not a national championship, which you had achieved. I mean, I know gymnastics is one of these sports you do from a very young age, right?

How old were you when you started?

Justin Toman: Five, yeah. Five years old.

AJ Maestas: Five years old. So [00:06:00] 15 years of your life goes into training for this. You obviously Excel at each level and then last man standing the cut, right. Or the first, last man cut off the team. What then, I mean, do you go into some sort of deep introspection or what exactly happened in your life?

No, really, did you take a year at michigan.

Justin Toman: I did.

Yeah. So, I did have the surgery. Literally didn’t make the team. I remember that moment very vividly when, you know, they called out the other seven guys and I wasn’t one of them, it was tough, you know, by all means, but I was fortunate. Great friends and family around me went home, had the surgery, unfortunately, actually suddenly, while I was recovering from that surgery, my mother passed away just suddenly from a heart attack.

So, I had to deal with, yeah, thank you. I mean, 20 years ago which is crazy, but having gone through that experience, not making the Olympic team now coming off of this surgery and having some personal stuff with my family was it was a tough year, I would say but did go back to Michigan, finished out my senior year.

I ended up redshirting. So, I didn’t compete for that next year and 21, but I did compete in a fifth year of eligibility the year after that and started some grad schoolwork in sports management, [00:07:00] which I guess ultimately led me to where I am today. Which is a good thing, but did compete, did make the national team for another few years, and made another run at the Olympics in ’04, but just wasn’t, you know, kind of had missed my window. It wasn’t quite at the peak there and it wasn’t really an intention but give it another shot and then really retired and came to the realization that everybody, all athletes come to at some point, whether you’re 20 or whether you’re Tom Brady and you’re still going.

You get to that point where you got to retire and you know, you think about what’s next. And so, for me, it was, okay, go back to school, go to business school, and then figure out what the career path might be.

AJ Maestas: And did you do business school there at Michigan as well?

Justin Toman: I did, yes. I am fortunate. I have three national championships in gymnastics from Michigan and three degrees, and I’m proud of all six of those things.

AJ Maestas: Nice. Yeah. Well, if you had to trade one for another, which one goes the national championship or the, yeah.

Justin Toman: So, I couldn’t pick just one. I love them all.

AJ Maestas: Certainly, there’s headwinds for gymnastics. You know, we have this gen Z study coming out right now, and this is true for all sports.

So, it’s kind of unfair to say about gymnastics because it’s actually not down as much as other [00:08:00] major sports, but everybody’s losing the battle for leisure time against these devices we are all carrying in our pockets, right? And social media, and what have you, just from a bored perspective for fun, where’s gymnastics going?

I mean, it’s expensive, right? Starting at age five. I mean, this is not a super accessible sport. When you think about the gymnasiums and the equipment and what have you, the costs.

Justin Toman: Yeah. There are barriers there for sure. But I think one of the things we’re, we’re trying to do is just make sure it’s as accessible as it can be.

I mean, it’s certainly easier to in some ways pick up a basketball or pick up a baseball or a Wiffle ball and go in your backyard. I mean, gymnastics just by definition is not as casual of a sport in that regard, right. Anybody can go in the backyard and throw a football around, but it’s probably much harder and certainly a little more dangerous if you’re trying to do back flips in your backyard.

So there, there is that level of equipment and training necessary, but listen, I think the future of gymnastics is bright, I’ll say that. I think I love the sport. That’s why I’m on the board. That’s why we’re doing what we’re doing. That’s why we’re trying to do the right thing for the sport. I think we are largely making some really good [00:09:00] progress.

I think if we can structure the sport and governance. In the right way with transparency, putting our athletes first, I think the future of gymnastics is bright. I mean, if you look at some of our numbers, USA, gymnastics has over 200,000 members and member organizations, which is a huge number. And most of that is at the grassroots level, but that also includes our elite-level competitors who get the TV time and the Olympic platform.

And the pandemic has affected things. I think if you look at things recently, obviously it’s affected the world, but in terms of gymnastics, really big impact in our communities. But as now, we hopefully are coming out of the pandemic, we’re seeing gyms reopen, we’re seeing enrollment pick back up.

We’re seeing participation increase, which are all good things as the world comes out of this. I think to your point we’re trying to do a few things. We look at a few things. I mean, continued participation at an early age is key. If we can get kids at a grassroots level in the doors of these gyms, that’s really the number one thing.

I think, anecdotally, but also research is showing that if somebody isn’t involved at that grassroots level and however far they may go, their [00:10:00] engagement does translate into longer-term engagement. Even if they stop the sport, they potentially still follow the sport. So, we want them, you know, I think participation is an engagement driver too.

I do think we need to get back on the quadrennium schedule. I think with Tokyo being thrown for a loop and postponed a year now. To a large extent, all the Olympic sports, including gymnastics, follow this kind of four-year cycle where you have this high level of engagement of visibility during the Olympics, and then it comes off again a little bit, but then it picks up.

So, I think the more we can get back to that more regular schedule, the better, and certainly, TV viewership feeds into there. Listen, I think gymnastics for a long time, especially on the women’s side and hopefully, maybe more so on the men’s side going forward, but the women’s side has tremendously benefited from star power.

I think every sport you see that with the NBA, you see that more and more with football star athletes drive engagement and viewership. And I think we’ve seen that in gymnastics, on the web. We’ve been so fortunate that the US has to have stars, literally the greatest of all time. Simone Biles, I mean, head and shoulders above literally anybody not even close.

I mean, she clearly is, the last [00:11:00] four years and currently before her, it was Gabby Douglas Olympic champion before her Nastia Liukin Olympic champion before her Sean Johnson. I mean, you look at these unbelievably talented and successful women. And we’re so fortunate to have had them represent U.S gymnastics.

My hope is on the men’s side, maybe we get one or two of those guys mentioned Sam Mikulak a Michigan guy. He’s by far the best gymnast Michigan has ever produced.

AJ Maestas: Well, that’s coming from a good source.

Justin Toman: Well, I mean, I’m not even close. I mean, he is tremendous. He’s training for his third Olympics, which would be almost unheard of.

And he’s been coming off of five or, I think even six us men’s titles, you know that the reigning national champion six times in a row. So just unbelievable. So, if we can get some star power on the men’s side, I think that. But the biggest thing potentially, and I was thinking about this before we were chatting, is gymnastics has the weird benefit of being a gateway to, or from other things.

When you think about exposure of gymnastics or exposure to gymnastics from things like parkour, CrossFit, and ninja warrior stuff. I mean, all those things are exposing a lot of [00:12:00] people to gymnastics. Gymnastics types training that they wouldn’t have otherwise. Right. If you’re into this ninja warrior stuff, all of a sudden, you’re seeking out the warrior training and the courses at your local gym, which is bringing in business to our local grassroots gym.

So, in a weird way, gymnastics has actually gotten quite a bit of exposure through other things. Most recently, like ninja warrior. And it’s been a tremendous impact to our business, our gyms businesses, but also just to the overall visibility and engagement in gymnastics.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. It does seem like there’s an opportunity there with the CrossFit games or something like that, where there’s crossover, you know like it’s a gift, right?

It’s not a threat. It’s a gift that people are training in these ways, these super functional, full-body type. Yeah. Interesting. Well, the NCAA, I agree with you and the star power thing is real, we put out an article a couple of months ago, as you know, the name image and likeness topic was really hot for collegiate athletics.

And if you look at the social media following, UCLA gymnastics team alone, there is unquestionably some six-figure per year earning potential with some of their stars and one in particular. And that is [00:13:00] true of these younger generations, I just mentioned are gen Z and gen alpha research.

People can be fans of an athlete halfway around the world that they’re never going to meet or see compete. So, the star power thing matters, you know, putting a face to the game. You know, the NBA has done a good job of that. Right. And I think that there’s opportunity to improve in some sports, right? Like baseball and football and what have you.

Yeah. Good point. That’s interesting by the way, sticking with college for a second. If I have this correct. If I remember this and remember this from your 40, under 40 video, they played for you. Congratulations again. An amazing award that you won the student-athlete of the year at Michigan, over Tom Brady, who was an orange bowl champion ten and two, top five football team.

Right? I mean, people must give you shit about this, right. Or at least do you see him? Cause you know, you sponsor the Superbowl he’s in it every year. It seems

Justin Toman: like. No, it’s, it is true. Listen, it’s true. I did. When Michigan’s male athlete of the year and at the time he was, you know, he was on campus, right. He was the quarterback of the football team, and he did not win the award.

So, I, in a way, yeah, I beat him out for it. Maybe, maybe that was the original chip on his shoulder, who knows? But [00:14:00] little credit here never feel too bad for Tom Brady. I think he’s done pretty well since then, but yeah, it’s funny. I, it is true. I guess I peaked much earlier than he did in my athletic career.

Clearly gone on to have 20 plus more years of success in the NFL. Then that was like the high point for me with you know, maybe one ACL, but I haven’t run into him and listen, we weren’t, you know, not like we were super close friends on campus. And you have to remember when, when we were on campus.

Yes, he was the quarterback of the team, but he actually split time with a guy named drew Henson, who is like this freshman phenom, if you follow college football. So, Tom Brady wasn’t Tom Brady in college. Right. He was kind of just starting to find himself and, you know, they keep credits his Michigan time with a lot of things, teaching them leadership and end up, you know, I’ve heard him speak, but he wasn’t like the best thing.

Obviously, as we know, he was drafted what, know 199th coming out of college. So, it was at the time nobody was like, oh yeah, that guy, you beat him. It wasn’t like a. Only as time has progressed, it’s become more of a, maybe more of a claim to fame for me in a way it’s funny. Now I’ve never run into him or talk to him about it.

Although I did [00:15:00] run into Jazelle at Super Bowl, 51 of the few Superbowls that he was actually not playing in. In San Francisco and super bowl 50, we were there for Pepsi halftime show stuff. And I was, I ended up in an elevator with her. They were both there, but she was in the elevator that I walked into going up to the suite level in the stadium.

And I, it crossed my mind for like a half a second and like, do I do I say something? And I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. And she walked out on the next floor, but you know, it could have been there. That was my one.

AJ Maestas: Yeah, there’s so many you know, are you enjoying, you know, how’s your time with the second-best athlete from his time at Michigan or…

Justin Toman: Just Couldn’t quite bring myself to do it.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. And this was your opportunity, all these great ideas, you know, in hindsight, I’m sure. Right?

Justin Toman: Her security, her security team, might’ve pushed.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. Possibly. Possibly. Yeah. Well, I hope you don’t mind me transitioning to business a bit, but you run sports marketing at Pepsi. It’s one of the biggest spenders in the world between Frito-Lay and Gatorade and Pepsi co.

And all, this is just a miniature bridge here before we leave the talk of your career. And we look at collegiate athletics, these gymnastics programs are getting cut left and [00:16:00] right, right. This is just something that’s happening. COVID may have accelerated that, but that was a continuing trend in the vice or economic pressure that athletic parts find themselves in between complying with title nine.

And being self-sustaining financially. Have you ever thought about Pepsi’s involvement in that world? I mean, being on the board and everything, I mean, you sponsor plenty of colleges and universities. Is there an intersection there, or I don’t know if not, how do you keep your personal bias out of Pepsi’s investments?

Justin Toman: It’s a great question. I think about it a lot because it is a collision of many of my worlds, right. Gymnastics, collegiate gymnastics, corporate sponsors. It is a collision of those worlds. And so, I do think about it a lot and it’s a tough spot. I mentioned aspects at the collegiate level is in a tough spot.

I go back. I mean, we, Pepsi does sponsor. We sponsor a lot of schools and campuses and some of those deals come with the athletic rights. And so in that way, we are from a corporate standpoint, hopefully, we’re sponsoring some of these schools that are supporting a lot of different called non-revenue programs.

One of which is gymnastics, but other [00:17:00] schools as well, what gymnastics is going through is indicative of

AJ Maestas: I see your daughter peeking behind you that is so great.

Justin Toman: This is Grace, she is four can you say hi to AJ

AJ Maestas: Hi grace. How are you doing?

Justin Toman: I’m doing a work called, did you just get home from school? All right. Have a good day.

Okay. Yes, please go wash your hands. That’s great. Go do, go wash your hands. Thank you, sweetie.

AJ Maestas: I love that she’s home from school. I mean, what is the time that she gets home at 1230?

Justin Toman: Yep. She’s in preschool still. So, she goes nine to noon and she comes home and every day tells me that she’s going to go wash her hands.

So, it’s good to know. We’re instilling good hygienic COVID practices in her. So, she’s very conscious of washing your hands, but

AJ Maestas: what a cutie, I’m glad she made an appearance.

Justin Toman: I specifically try to quarantine myself in a room here and be quiet, but then now that. Which is one of the,

AJ Maestas: one of the benefits of this whole COVID thing, I think is we keep meeting all our clients and friends, kids, and family members, you know what I mean?

They just make appearances behind them. And I think it’s,

I love it

Justin Toman: I do too, [00:18:00] man. I will tell you every day, just the way my schedule was quote-unquote, normal pre-COVID life. I just never was home for dinner, just, you know, with the commute and work hours. And now I don’t think I’ve missed the dinner in the last year-plus, so it’s an amazing.

Nice little perk to literally walk out of one room and into the dinner table and have a family dinner every single night. It’s awesome.

AJ Maestas: Not to make light of COVID, you know, I mean, obviously there’s incredible suffering and death and tragedy and pain around the world, but for the privileged folks like us here in the United States, still in gainfully employed.

And what have you it’s there’s some real benefits, right? To discovering home again and family time and getting off the road and off of planes. Extremely grateful. I live in Scottsdale, Arizona. It’s paradise here. I mean, why would one leave here? You know, if you don’t have to. So well, I’m glad grace made a little appearance.

That was cool. You were saying, by the way, we were talking about collegiate athletics and, and PepsiCo sponsors. So many universities. Do you put pressure on universities? Do you have an agenda where you say this is why we’re doing it and, you know, [00:19:00] Olympic sports. Or are they chasing the eyeballs of football and basketball?

Justin Toman: Yeah. Listen, I think a lot of it is the ladder at this point. And I do think, and not to get on a huge soapbox cause it’s, you know, I’m not an AD and I am sure I don’t pretend to know the intricacies and the complexities of the arguments, but I do think you’re seeing I think it’s a massive question and could be a massive referendum on college athletics in general.

I think you’re seeing it to some extent now that that some athletes are able to name, image, likeness, you know, that. Maybe that’s just the tip of the iceberg, but I just think it does call into question and gymnastics is almost like the Guinea pig here and other sports too. I mean, you see swimming programs dropped, you see wrestling some track and field.

It’s not just Men’s Gymnastics. I think it just calls into question what is the true purpose of collegiate athletics? Are we, are we in it to make money? Is it to further enhance the student athlete or the student experience? And some, some of these people are not just students, they’re student athletes, or is it a commercial enterprise or is there some middle ground and some framework that [00:20:00] can work for everybody in terms of, you know, the football, it’s be honest, football, basketball.

Paid for my student athlete experience. I know that I fully understand that the success of Michigan’s football program paid for me to have an unbelievable experience that I had, and I’m thankful everyday for it. And so as much as it can, I would love that to continue for as many people as possible.

But then at some point it does become a numbers game. And how many sports can. One football team support. Right. And it should essentially subsidizing everybody else and maybe that’s okay in the right scale. But then you do call into question, how important is profit and are these mostly state universities are, are taxpayer supported them as well.

Right? Listen, it’s a quagmire of complexity. My hope is that we’re moving to a better solution where athletes can profit, you know, rightly so for some of their popularity that they themselves are generating, like acknowledging that’s not going to be everybody. It’s certainly not going to be most of the non-revenue sports.

You know, I don’t think anybody was going to pay me when I was a student athlete to endorse their product, nor should they have, but [00:21:00] hopefully it’s moving in a better direction. I think it’s going to take some time to get there, but it’s big. It’s a big. You know,

I think some people would say otherwise though, I mean, appear a national champion gymnast and Michigan stock full of wealthy alumni that there wouldn’t be somebody, you know, you 20 years in the future, as an example, our leading sports marketing at PepsiCo, will you do name, image and likeness deals with certain athletes to amplify your existing University investments?

It’s something we’re thinking about. It’s a very topical, we talk about that every week. I think there’s a limited set of, let me put my marketer hat back on. I think there’s a limited set of circumstances, which could lead us to doing that in a few situations. I don’t think it’s just the dynamics of our brands and our categories.

Also the timing involved, like we need, you know, six months to sell something in to get some retail benefit or to draft a campaign. And all of a sudden, if we signed a deal with so-and-so and three months later, he or she decides to leave school, or there’s, the timing involved becomes hard because at least, you know, I’ll call it.

[00:22:00] Let’s use football. As an example, if you sign a deal with somebody, you can even basketball men’s or women’s, you know, you could be doing a deal with somebody and then three months later, they go to the NBA. Now, you know, nothing prohibits you from continuing to deal with them, but the reason you’re doing a deal.

These student athletes is probably to take advantage of that fan base, right. And that local market. And, you know, only rare will be the national case like a Trevor Lawrence or whoever, but it’s something we’re thinking about. We haven’t quite cracked the right angle and yet for our business and our brands, but I think it’ll be something you may see down the road.

AJ Maestas: I agree. And I think of your planning cycle, you know, we’re fortunate enough to work with you for just so the listeners understand that we do business together and the planning cycle, a lot of CBG is not just PepsiCo, but when you’re a giant like this, you’re thinking 18 months plus in the future, right.

With getting things out in market and what have you. And that’s true by the time, you know, someone’s a rockstar in the collegiate world and there’ll be just as quickly exiting. Yeah. It is pretty tough to play on that cycle. Well, staying with business stuff, I’d love for you to share. Maybe start with the collegiate deals and what is the [00:23:00] motivation and how that those deals work for you.

But I would love to learn more, you know, you’re an NBA, sponsor X games, the NFL for a very long time. What is the motivator? Why, why does PepsiCo sponsor and what do you get from it?

Justin Toman: Good question and hopefully I have some good answers. It’s a few things. It’s scale, it’s engagement. You know, we tend to think at Pepsi, our brands, when you think about sports, music, movies, all these kind of fan or consumer passion points.

Things like sports, my bias opinion is most powerful passion point to tap into. But again, things like music and entertainment and things like that. They’re all on the consideration set all across the spectrum. I think sports, you do get immediate scale when you think about north American sports and the fact that what 90 million people are NFL fans in this country, 60 million are baseball fans.

There’s a bunch of different metrics out there, but all of a sudden, if you decide to tap into sports and do it the right way with teams, leagues, and athletes, there is unmatched scale. You think about the sports as being one of the last, if not the last kind of live appointment viewing, whether you’re going to a stadium and watching a game live, or whether you’re obviously watching it on [00:24:00] TV, it’s some of the last places that your fan behavior is live.

So when you pair that with the scale and the passion that people have for their teams or their athletes, man, it’s just a powerful combination. And I think when we think about how our brands leverage it, and it’s a privilege to work on behalf of unbelievable massive scale consumer facing brands, we think about Gatorade, Pepsi, do the Frito brands.

I mean, I love and I’m so fortunate. I love the intersection that I get to work with them. The intersection of massive powerful brands and amazing partners in sports. When you think about the NBA, the NFL NHL, all of our team and athlete partners, we just announced a partnership with LeBron James. We’re unbelievably lucky to work as a marketer to be able to live in that space of massive brands and massive sports partnerships.

And it’s a fun, Inspiring, and challenging, challenging in a good way, place to be for a marketer and for somebody who is, trying to drive a business. So it’s an unbelievable place to be. I think we have different objectives across our portfolio. I think you would easily say Gatorades, obviously that [00:25:00] focus on the athlete and fueling performance and recovery and on the field point of sweat and then everything else.

Pepsi, Mountain Dew, Fritos is in the fan space, right? How can we as brands elevate and enhance that fan experience? Because we believe we’re part of it. I mean, if I use the example of what products are you buying when you host a super bowl party at your house? It’s usually four things. And we happen to sell three of them, which is soda, water, and beer and chips.

And we do three, right? We don’t have the beer, but we got soda, water and chips. And so that’s where we start from our brands have an authentic role in that fan experience. And then you layer on the brand, you know, role in the brand positioning, from there and hopefully do some really fun things that really engage consumers.

AJ Maestas: Let’s talk about LeBron James, just cause this is something, you know, we’ve professionally been discussing for. Whatever’s publicly acceptable to you, I’d love to know what you can share here about what you plan to do with him. He spent almost 20 years, right, with Coca-Cola? He’s pretty well associated with Sprite.

You sort of see that connection through the NBA, you’re an official NBA league partner. You now have LeBron and your sort of [00:26:00] endorsement portfolio. Is there anything you can share that we can expect to see here someday soon?

Justin Toman: And I should add the Lakers are great partners too. So we do have, in this case, the advantage of that stack of elite team and athlete partnerships that really align well.

Listen, he’s going to help us launch this mountain new rise, energy drink brand that we literally knew the world really lives in this healthy energy space. Not like anything else out there currently. So that’s the crux of it. I think there’s going to be potentially expansion from there, but to start with, I mean, he’s just unbelievable obviously.

And when you do anything with him, it’s going to garner some immediate attention. So we’re really happy to be out out of the gate with him officially.

AJ Maestas: Oh, well, congratulations. I can’t resist asking you. Are you going to use them globally? I mean the NBA has massive global appeal. Our athletes here, there’s a Western culture thing.

So even if it doesn’t compare to the global game of football, the NBA is relevant, right. In Asia, as an example, do you have plans and do you use some of these U S investments to integrate.

Justin Toman: We do. We certainly do with him, I think. Well, listen, we’re going to start off with this brand in the U S right now, it’s only available in the U [00:27:00] S so I think that that’ll be the focus, but obviously when you sign somebody like him, you have the grandest ambitions down the road.

So we’ll, we’ll see where we go. I think we have done you know, power is certainly if I think of NBA guys specifically, Yeah, because there is such global appeal and growth in this sport. I think we do want to, as much as we can leverage the athletes and endorsers, we signed globally and even thinking about as teams get more sophisticated and build their global fan base, as you can imagine, right?

The Lakers have a global fan base, the Miami Heat have a tremendous global fan base. You know, the rockets, obviously with the history of Yao Ming and China, obviously they have one of the biggest global fan bases, so where we can and where the brights allow us to do that, we do try to leverage U.S. Assets globally to the extent that we can.

AJ Maestas: Interesting. I wish I saw that more often, honestly, just knowing the reach of. Some of the opportunity. I like the way you described that you have three of the four big foods or products that are on super bowl Sunday, right? With water, beer, soda, and salty snacks. If you don’t mind me asking. I know it’s been [00:28:00] years since water has been the driver of profit in volume.

Right. And I think a lot of people listening might not know that, that it, you know, that it outsells in a lot. All these other things in your portfolio, but it never seems to lead to anything in sponsorships. You know, why is that? Why don’t we see a stadium, or a deal led by a water?

Justin Toman: That’s a great question, listen, we always want to go into partnerships, both of the team and league level.

And to some extent, the athlete level but with full portfolio rights. We have obviously everything from soda, ice teas, coffees, with our Starbucks partnership, obviously water, we have a whole water portfolio, Aquafina, Lifewater bubbly. We go in with, with category exclusivity, and now we have energy, right? With the acquisition of rockstar, and now rise.

So we always want to do full category, exclusive deals, you know, across the beverages. We do tend to lead certain things with certain brands. I mean, we just historically, for the right reasons, I think led things like the NFL with, Pepsi, right? The Pepsi Superbowl halftime show, that just seems like a much more natural fit.

I mean, Pepsi, a brand that [00:29:00] really was founded on pop culture. And to some extent its DNA is rooted in music. If you think back to Michael Jackson and so forth. That was a perfect example of how we put a brand that has DNA based in music and pop culture. That makes perfect sense to put that in the center of the halftime show, quite literally.

And also the fan experience. I mean, yes, fans certainly go to games or tailgates and are drinking a lot of water, but just from a front of house brand perspective. We have tended to lead with Pepsi on mountain Dew, on the other side, we have tended to lead act things like action sports with mountain Dew.

Again, thinking about the history and the heritage of that brand kind of came up with action sports and skateboarding and snowboarding just seems to make more authentic sense there. And we’ve now leaned in more to the NBA, right? Well, that’s, we’re trying to build that connection. It’s a bigger job to do.

I think we’ve had some success with the NBA. Building mountain Dew and owning things like the three point contest. And hopefully as people saw just a few weeks ago in Atlanta, that it came to light really well. But we’re trying to build that with the NBA fan, right? So we’re trying to pick specific brands and carve out specific [00:30:00] lanes in sports and really let them own it.

So we don’t kind of compete with ourselves in that way.

AJ Maestas: I mean, most people listening to this want to pitch you something, right. I’m guessing. Not most. I shouldn’t say that there’s plenty to learn, but what, what do you say to those who want Pepsi as a partner? They want your sponsorship dollars and how can they best serve your mission across that whole portfolio?

Because you’re right. Those are monster brands that own their own.

Justin Toman: Here’s my soap box and you’re right. I mean, we love getting I want to say pitch by love, connecting with current and potential new and even former partners who we were partners with and are not anymore, but maybe can come back and do things with, I love talking to them and hearing from them literally every day.

I mean, several times a day. It’s such a benefit of my role of the, the breadth and the number of conversations across different sports and Kenley entertainment properties that we get to have conversations with people in and do partnerships. And so it’s, it’s tremendous benefit. I love the breadth of things we get to do.

And it’s also a benefit. I mean, you know, we’re looking at things like, Hey, how do we elevate the halftime show and what worked, what didn’t. I can transport that over to the MBA, [00:31:00] right? Here’s oh, let’s apply that. Learning to the three-point contest, or I can apply something that we did really successfully with the MBA.

To, to hockey or to football and vice versa. So it’s this really nice cross-pollination because I get to see things. I mean, listen, we’ve, we’ve ported things, learnings from action sports into, into the NFL and vice versa, right? You get this really cool learning and kind of ability to pick and choose the learnings and the best practices and place them in other places.

So what I’d say is, you know, three things, how we evaluate how we structure and how we activate deals. So one evaluate there is this rigorous process that we built and that we go through. On any conversation, any potential deal to determine why we’re doing it and how much we should be paying for it.

Right. And so why we’re doing it, it has to be based and completely rooted in a brand and or business objective. So I often joke, like as the sports guy I’m like famous for internally at Pepsi being like we don’t have a sports strategy when somebody asks, well, what’s the sports strategy always. My answer is we don’t have a sports strategy.

We have brand and business strategies that my job and my team’s job is to [00:32:00] help fulfill through the power of sports. So yes, we do have a sports strategy, right? It’s a little bit of a, you know, just making it, making a point by saying we don’t have a sports strategy, but it has…

AJ Maestas: but you are keeping a strategy which, so many people don’t yeah, it started, it must serve the master.

Right. Which is that brand or that business objective.

Justin Toman: Right.

So if I can’t say, Hey, we’re doing this to achieve awareness for Mountain Dew, we’re doing what we’re trying to. We’re partnering with LeBron, at least initially to help generate some impact in awareness to launch this brand called rise, boom, linking it back right to the business objective.

So that’s the first. And then once we think there’s an opportunity and we have an idea of ballpark of what we think we want to pay based on the return we go into, how do we best structure it? Right. And I think from a structuring standpoint, we kind of use this principle that I’m calling like ownership and influence, and really it’s a broad way to say, in any deal we want to own and, or create.

Platform or own and, or create a set of assets that authentically is relevant to our brands. And I’ll use half-time as the perfect example, right? You would [00:33:00] say, Hey, we have this brand in Pepsi that’s really rooted in pop culture and music heritage, and this asset with the NFL. This platform is halftime show platform.

That literally is the biggest cultural, new music moment of the year. And you put those two things together and it really is that perfect storm that really gives you the right to play that, right. Hopefully people would say, oh yeah, Pepsi makes sense to be at the center of the halftime show. Verses the previous sponsor, which happened to be a Bridgestone tire, like six or 10, you know, eight years ago, I would say I would hope Pepsi has a little bit more right to kind of own that moment than Bridgestone did nothing against them.

I just think it’s a better brand fit.

AJ Maestas: That’s true.

Justin Toman: That’s the ownership piece. And then the influence piece is just as important. We want to have a seat at the table and help determine how things come to life. Right?

We want that seat at the table. We want to co-create. We want to help our partners and lead creation of content and sort of help be responsible for how an asset or a platform comes to life. We have flexible funds in all of our deals that we know we can shift and reallocate year to year support, big [00:34:00] bets that that may, you know, priorities may shift year to year.

So, you know, we look at, I’ll say, I’ll describe it this way, we are not passive. We are not passive partners in sports. And the deals that we do, we look at sports sponsorship as like a full contact sport in a good way. You know, we love rolling up our sleeves with our partners and getting in the kitchen and making this thing work together.

I think we’re at our best when we find those partners that are really willing to do that as well.

AJ Maestas: I’m really grateful. You do have that rigor in your process, honestly, because so many don’t, right? Incredibly typical for people to receive a pitch and say, someone wants to partner with us. I mean, this is a challenge for a lot of the brands we work with and our job and what Navigate does, right.

Is to put rigor into that into discipline. And so to get people from being reactive until you’re being pitched something, and to, you know, proactively having a process, you know, an objective assessment, some guard rails against it. So good for you. Well, there’s so many properties, there’s so many agencies, right there would love to have your pitch.

You understand your business better. So just for fun, for someone who is wishing they had Pepsi co as a partner, [00:35:00] or, you know, it’s probably just an automatic, right? You’re going to want to talk to Coke and Pepsi upon renewal, one of those deals, how do they get to know your business objectives? The starting point, the opening of that funnel for you was aligning with your business or brand objectives.

How would one go about figuring that out?

Justin Toman: Part of It’s research. I mean, if I was trying to pitch me, I would first read every kind of publicly available thing that we’ve published in the last year or so, just understand the macro context that we’re in. If there is specific brand or market by market insights or Intel trying to get that.

I think that’s, that’s the first thing. The second thing would you just ask? I mean , I love it. And some partners do, and some of our best partnerships have started this way, which is not with a, Hey, I have a deck that I wanted you to look at and a pitch proposal, because this is what I think you might want or want to hear.

AJ Maestas: You don’t buy powerPoint pictures that get sent to your crisis.

Justin Toman: I’m always guilty of like going to the last patient. God, I can’t do that, but no, it’s. Starting with here’s, here’s a pitch deck. It’s like, well, what are you trying to achieve? You know, I can tell you until I’m blue in the face about our property and our platform, but what can I [00:36:00] first understand what the corporate and the brand and the business and the market objectives and priorities are.

I love starting conversations. If folks ask us that, cause I’m happy to talk about that. And that usually leads to much more. Informed pitch. Right? If I say, Hey, thinking about a specific market in LA, all, you know, we have, how’s your business in LA? Well, we’re really under-indexed right. It’s a, it’s a tough market for us.

We don’t have great penetration. We have very low awareness and we’re struggling, right. That maybe that’s my answer. That gives a lot of information to somebody to come back with. Okay. I understand that now. Here’s what I’m gonna do. My whole thing now is created to. Help address that trial and awareness problem you just told me about, and here’s, here’s the pitch right now.

All of a sudden it’s a much more focused discussion that I’m dialed into because I know it’s right off the bat going to address a business challenge I have versus just the cookie cutter. Oh yeah. Here’s a bunch of things that we think we think you might like. So I think starting with the research, asking a lot of questions first about what, what are you looking to do in a certain market or with a certain.

And then having the conversation. I mean, listen, a benefit of my role is I get to have a lot of conversations with a lot of different people and [00:37:00] some of our best partnerships have come from, I don’t wanna say they’re cold calls, but things that weren’t on my radar, I just didn’t, wasn’t aware of, or as aware that I should be.

And all of a sudden with a little education and some focused, you know, discussions, it leads to something.

AJ Maestas: I mean, we have this cheesy line at Navigate that a winners prepare, and or winners prepare more cause everybody prepares a certain level, but that’s cool to hear. I’m glad to hear that because I do believe that research and homework and due diligence matters, right.

There’s a book we read as a company a couple of years ago called “Just Listen”. And as you can imagine, it gets into the power of, you know, authentic curiosity. And listening to the other side, receiving that playbook. Granted, I know, I imagine it’s not easy just to get you on the phone, but, that is good to hear prepare before you call and try to align and understand your objectives and what you’re trying to achieve.

And you have a great number of people on your team, you know, siloed by industry segments. So they don’t have to get Justin Toman on the phone. They can talk to a number of other experts, right. That fit their sport or category.

Justin Toman: But also I’d say like, again, [00:38:00] what are the benefits? You know? And so we’ve had a great partnership.

We’ve leveraged you guys a ton over the years. Actually, currently we have some work with you guys in market that we were just wrapping up and we’ve gotten some great insight off of as it pertains to basket. This is the era of more data than ever. I mean, I think the only thing I’ve spent more on, you know, unfortunately we’ve all had to do the make good and the cutting of deals and, and, money back conversations for the last year.

The one thing I will say, I have spent more money on than I ever have, the only thing that hasn’t gotten cut and actually has increased is our data and insights budgets. Right. And I think I said that to you, that when we talked at the end of last year, when we commissioned the study, that’s going on now, which is.

Hey, the one thing I know now is that I need to get smarter about every dollar I spend and things like Navigate and the capabilities that you guys bring to the table, help us do that. So I guess every property should know that, you know, everybody knows this, it’s not a secret, you know, there’s people like you guys and Navigate is out there in the market, helping brands and helping people like me get smarter about what we’re doing and how to do things better and more efficiently.

So that’s huge.

AJ Maestas: Well, thank you for saying that, you know, it’s our authentic recommendation that people spend about 10 [00:39:00] times more than they are in research.

Maybe, maybe 20 times more as the appropriate amount of, and this is again, truly in your best. Really wanting what’s best for you.

Justin Toman: That’s cool. One of my business school, one of my business school professors, it was like a marketing research class, obviously. And he was like, Hey, no company has ever gone bankrupt for doing too much research.

Right. Which is just true. Like you’re never, you’re probably not going to you know, go bankrupt spending to get yourself smarter on the numbers.

AJ Maestas: Well, all joking aside, it is kind of disturbing what happens in sports that are generally living in this like analog world. You know what I mean when it’s really a digital world and it does worry me, the speaking to sellers, since some of those questions were meant to help inform the kind of people who want to work with Pepsi and better serve your goals.

And what have you know, we’re getting our asses kicked by these devices, right? And by social media, I think the stat is way over 90% of digital revenue growth over the last few years has gone to two companies. You know, Facebook and Google owned entities, and you could argue 50% [00:40:00] of the noise out there is coming from sports and sports, passion and entertainment.

And so we, and given what we all do for a living, aren’t keeping that at least the properties aren’t, you know, keeping those sorts of audiences and monetizing them in the way in which you as a brand need to reach them right. Digital past. Television and unique views 70 and eight years ago in total minutes, viewed three or four years ago in revenue two years ago.

So, you know, it’s not like digital’s coming, digital has past television and yet look, you know, look where we are and what you’re able to buy through sports. So I appreciate you saying that because there there’s some homework that needs to take place and understanding where brands are going and where consumers are going and finding them in those places.

And yeah, people don’t go out of business doing research. I don’t think we actually understand as an industry where our customers are going and where they’re spending their time as well as we should.

Justin Toman: Absolutely. And it’s never a single silver bullet answer. It’s never the, oh, finally I understand exactly, it’s just an iterative process and, and I’m sure you would agree.

I mean, five years ago you were doing some really good research, cutting edge stuff with, I’m sure a lot of brands including ourselves and[00:41:00] fast forward to today, you look back at what you used to do. And it seems like, wow, man, that was like the stone ages. Now that all the new information and abilities and capabilities we have, and that’s the way we look at it.

I mean, we look at how we’re doing research and obviously evolves every year and the data capabilities to just get better and better. And also how we activate, you know, we look at five years ago, how we activated the halftime show at the time we were like, oh, that’s awesome. Like, whoa, just, I’ll never get better than this.

And then three years later, you’re like, wow, I can’t believe what we did three years ago. That seemed like Bush league. You know, we’re doing it so much better this year, you know, you’re, you know, you’re doing the right thing. If you look back. Wow, that that was nothing compared to what we’re doing today.

Right? If you look back and say, wow, man, we really hit the peak three years ago. We haven’t been that good sense that, you know, it’s probably, that’s not a good sign.

AJ Maestas: Well, I agree. And I’m glad to hear you say that, but that’s, that’s maybe I’m being too skeptical, but I don’t feel like that’s how our industry is.

I’m proud of it. I mean, we are similarly absolutely dedicated to a culture of continuous improvement and that can be painful for people, especially given Navigates, you know, kind of research data analytics. That tend to be risk averse. And so they are being pulled into the [00:42:00] future. Right.

That’s a tough thing to do, but we’re putting efforts into it. Matt Balvanz and our team, I think has brought in five new tech vendors, you know, beautiful ways, passive observation on following someone’s digital footprint, their path physically, where they are tracking people on their phones.

There’s some really cool stuff out there that people in sports don’t use. And I agree. Yeah. if things look similar two or three years ago, just the world alone, gen Z and gen alpha, how different than they are than millennials or gen X as you and I are. I mean, that movement alone is a double digit percent per year kind of reassessment thing.

So I’m glad to hear you say that stuff cause, cause I agree. I do think that’s one of our weak spots as an industry. I think it’s also given that it’s a weakness. It makes it an opportunity to fill that void

Justin Toman: where we’re always looking for partners, both on the data side, but also on the sports property side.

To help us like how you phrased it. We don’t want to be pulled into the future. We want to be jumping ahead and almost like have to maybe pull ourselves back. Right. Let’s try and learn and test. And if we have to take a step back because we went too far, that’s probably the right space to be in.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. You also have incredible resources.

I mean, you [00:43:00] know, Gatorade, Mountain Dew, PepsiCo, you know? Right. Frito-Lay, your team, you know, your team has all these superstars, right? There’s all these fancy degrees and people with really amazing background, but it’s true. Right? Like your team is very lucky.

Justin Toman: Yeah. Yeah.

AJ Maestas: I mean, as most brands have nobody or one or two people and they’re splitting time between sport and entertainment and other things there, the resources aren’t often there.

I do think like the property side doesn’t necessarily believe that or understand that quite often the brand doesn’t have access to that stuff, you know, or they don’t have the resources. Yeah. Yeah. You were in a rare but amazing place and I’m happy for you to be leading this. A PepsiCo is you know, it’s in, it’s in a set of a handful of jobs with those kinds of resources and budgets.

Justin Toman: Yep. Very, very fortunate. I am. Honestly, I pinch myself at least once a day thinking, wow, really? I get paid to do this. I mean, it’s, you know, obviously everybody has headaches, but man, I do consider myself really lucky to be where I am. And it’s awesome. And I am thankful everyday.

AJ Maestas: I hope you have fun by the way, it’s gotta be fun, right?

I mean, it’s your job to go to the super bowl every year and you’re [00:44:00] putting on the biggest show at the super bowl every year.

A hundred percent. I mean, it is absolutely fun. I couldn’t imagine doing anything different. I love it. So fortunate to get to do what we do. And we have a great team. I mean some of the folks in our team, we just have such a rock star team, like you mentioned.

And it makes it fun. And we, you know, have great partners that we work with. There are lots of worst jobs to have I’m sure in the world than mine as I’m very thankful.

Yeah, it looks pretty good from over here, but no, I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. Well, Hey, I would love to wrap up with a couple of quick fire questions just to get to know you a little better.

Is that cool?

Justin Toman: Absolutely.

AJ Maestas: All right. Excellent. What is your favorite place to travel?

Justin Toman: Given the current times? I’ll say anywhere, but my house, I think I’m probably not alone in thinking, ah, man, we get these vaccines. Let’s just get anywhere except our house. Cause we’ve all been cooped up. The national parks are on the list to take the kids probably in the next few years.

That’s kind of a cool thing I’m hoping to do in the next few years.

AJ Maestas: I hit two or three of them this summer and it was really nice given COVID to get outdoors out here in the west where I live, you know, it’s so accessible. I’m glad you’re going to do [00:45:00] that, especially they’re four to six-ish.

Yeah. The girls will remember it the rest of their life. Right. They’re old enough now to, yeah. Very cool. I’m sure you’ve heard this question before, but it’s the whole, who would you have dinner with living or dead? Anyone in history, anyone that exists today, who would be your dinner date? You can choose a couple if you want, but yeah, if you had a chance, any figure any, it could be a family member, but who would you take to dinner?

Justin Toman: So many people, right. We think about professional sports and I would love to learn and pick the brains of so many smart people. But on this one, I would have to take it probably personal, but my mom, I mentioned she passed away 20 years ago now being a parent and a father, it would be really cool to have, have her meet the kids right at the ages they are.

And so that would be cool. You know that would, that would be my choice there.

AJ Maestas: Yeah. That would be pretty special. And honestly, even though you were an adult, I know that collegiate athlete experience, especially for gymnast and all the training, I’m thinking that you were completely engrossed in your own world.

And at that age, 1920, you can’t expect to be losing your mother at that. I mean that can’t even be on the radar, right? [00:46:00] I imagine there are conversations that you didn’t get to have that many people get to have with their parents as they become adults. Right. You know, revisiting history family. That would be pretty special for the girls too.

Yeah, absolutely. I am sorry again for losing your mother too young. That’s not fair. Do you have a life hack? Do you have one of those things that you do that buys you time or peace of mind? Or? I don’t know. Yeah. What’s your trick that has allowed you to have this kind of success at this young of an age?

Justin Toman: Well, it’s just like, I’m going to give you one, but I it’s like, I’m almost embarrassed to say, cause it’s not a ha you know, you can watch the Tik TOK or YouTube videos like on life hacks and all those things. You’re like, oh, of course, I’ll start doing that. Or I’ll use this paperclip for that. Like, it’s an amazing unlocked to somebody.

This is like, maybe it’s less of a life hack, more of a pet peeve, which is, I always make the coffee the night before I set the coffee maker, pour the water, put the beans. Like I just, so all I have to do cause I get up early. I wake up, you know, sometimes before five and come down and all I have to do is hit the button and it starts, it’s a worst start to my day [00:47:00] when I have to come down and I’m like, I forgot to make the coffee that I got in the dark. I gotta get the coffee out and pour the water in. You inevitably spill it all over the place. So, my number one thing is like, I’m religious about just setting the coffee maker up the night before so that all I have to do in the morning is just hit the button and not think about it.

It’s a weird, little nuance, but that’s my thing I have to do.

AJ Maestas: And I’ve read that laying out your clothes, which I do, you know, for the gym in the morning, so that I just wake up and walk out the door kind of thing. Have you ever heard of the book Atomic Habits?

Justin Toman: I haven’t read it, but it’s on my list.

AJ Maestas: Well, I’ll give you a cheat on it. And there’s a couple of things in there that I think are really beneficial that I remember. One is habit stacking. So, it’s your habit. You start the coffee. Your, you know, you could have in the next habit, which as soon as I have my cup of coffee, I sit down and meditate or whatever it is you just become like a matter of routine is when I do this, I do this.

So that’s a part of it. You know, you already have this trigger, you’ve already started something that is a consistent routine. Right. And you’ve made your morning easier on yourself. And the other one was just sort of saying that. I am this, you know, I am [00:48:00] someone who does this, whatever I work out daily, not the whole, my goal is to, but to embody it. These sort of say, this is just who I am just had to share for fun, just because any form of a consistent morning routine, like your coffee, is the beginning of, you know, what could be a pretty expansive morning routine, which I know is not easy as a father with the young kids and all that kind of stuff, but cool. Thank you for sharing. I have an opportunity for you to go back to campus. I just thought of a Michigan, we losing to Washington and football on September 11th in the Big House.

Justin Toman: Is that true?

I don’t think the, you know, I’m not sure that’d be a pre-determined it’s not predetermined. Yeah. If, because nobody’s been in a stadium or probably not most people for a long time, I am itching to get back one to Michigan’s campus. That would be an awesome game. I know it was supposed to be held out in Washington. Right. Last year

AJ Maestas: I was so excited. Cause it’s Labor Day weekend the weather is amazing.

Yeah, perfect.

Justin Toman: Couldn’t beat it

but the big house is listen. I’m certainly biased, but I do think there’s a handful of college football viewing experiences that are on the [00:49:00] bucket list. I would say watching a game on a nice fall Saturday and Ann Arbor is one of them.

Maybe we can be out there.

AJ Maestas: I’ll say, I was there the last time the Huskies played there? We would have been about seniors just to try to, in case it rings a bell, the Huskies had the game pretty much wrapped up. You had a kicker that couldn’t make it from 15 yards out. And there’s this 12 men on the field penalty that adds 15 yards to a hopeless situation for Michigan.

That leads to a time-expiring field goal. That was about, I don’t know, 40 yards further than he’d ever made one from, and you guys…

A heartbreaker.

And it was, yeah, pretty depressing. Although I do kind of believe the home teams are supposed to win, but that was a heartbreaker. So yeah, we owe you one, I guess, is what I’m trying to say.

So just to wrap things up. I’m going to embarrass you by calling you a world-class athlete. But in my book, if you’re the last man off the US team, then you have been on the team for pretty much any country in the world. As an Olympic gymnast, you won a national championship in gymnastics. So, you’ve been a student-athlete and you’ve competed at the highest levels in an athlete.

Now you’re sitting at the highest levels in the [00:50:00] business of sports, right? Guiding these sponsorships. So, it’s been really cool to hear from you by the way. This is again, AJ Maestas being joined by Justin Toman what I’m calling a world-class athlete, and on top of our industry with really one of the largest, if not the largest spender in sponsorships in the world, I’m super grateful you joined me today. Thank you very much.

Justin Toman: AJ, thank you for having me. You’re too kind for those words. And you’re too kind for having me on, but I’ve really enjoyed it and I know we’ll be in touch but thank you so much. Appreciate it.

AJ Maestas: If you’d like to join the conversation, email us@infoatnvgt.com. Or check out our website@nvgt.com. I’m AJ Maestas. Join us again next week for Navigating Sports Business.[00:51:00] .