Podcast Alert: Marina Carpenter – Navigate

Transcript

+^

Marina Carpenter: [00:00:00] The fun one was getting a hundred pound dog from Finland to Phoenix. In the summertime, we had a mascot who wanted to repel from the ceiling. I learned all about drone flying and the licenses needed for that. So any given day, you kind of have to figure it out.

Anne Ristau: Welcome to the Navigating Sports Business Podcast. I’m your host for it today, am Riskow co-head of Consulting at Navigate. We started this podcast to showcase some of the incredible people that we get to interact with every day and the impactful work that they’re doing in our industry. We hope you learn something about them and something from them in our conversation.[00:01:00]

Today I have an exceptional guest, navigates own Marina Carpenter, head of ownership, and C-Suite strategy. Welcome Marina. Yeah, thanks for having me. So, you know a little bit about both ownership about the C-Suite in professional sports, the strategies and the decisions that they’re facing. We spent the last eight years prior to navigate at the Arizona Coyotes.

Most recently as the EVP of Public Affairs and General counsel. Bad pun intended, but eight years for ownership changes that truly had to be a dog year’s experience in your career.

Marina Carpenter: It was, and looking back on it, it’s a lot more fun than probably it felt in the moment. But part of that, I had the opportunity to learn a lot under a lot of different kind of guidance and directives coming from ownership, make a [00:02:00] lot of pivots and think I’m better for it.

Anne Ristau: Can you talk a little bit about how the changes in ownership impacted you and the rest of the leadership team at the Coyotes?

Marina Carpenter: Yeah, so with each ownership change, there was some similarities and some unique aspects to it. And really identifying and understanding their priorities, their hot topics, um, the things they wanted to focus on, and building strategies around them, even if they were very different than what the team had been doing before.

So a few examples. At one point, we really prioritize price integrity of our tickets, even if that meant we weren’t selling out the venue. I had another ownership group that really wanted us. Start and lead with the fan experience. And so our goal was to make sure the building was filled every day, even if we weren’t maintaining that price integrity.

So there’s pros and cons to pretty much every decision that you make, but how it builds into your overall kind of goals is what’s important. Another example would [00:03:00] be scheduling dates with the league office. You know, every team needs to submit their available dates for their venue. You’re working around concerts and particular moments that are important to your home city.

So I’ve had. You know, some years where we submitted the absolute minimum just to like check the boxes, to really try to control what days we were assigned for home games. Other years we were far more flexible and we really tried to prioritize, at least for us, second half of the season, usually performed better.

We draw great on weekend games, so we actually wanted kind of our big opponents to come in our Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday kind of time slots to try to maximize revenue throughout the, throughout the year. So every owner has a different kind of. Marching order, and it’s your job to figure out kind of how you best execute it.

Anne Ristau: What’s the strangest decision you had to make or task that you had to take on

Marina Carpenter: there? [00:04:00] There was a few, the fun ones that come to mind because I was on the phone with like different embassies and you know, having translators. Was getting a hundred pound dog from Finland to Phoenix in the summertime, and it’s a lot more complicated than you would think.

I’ve also had to go through some safety protocol things. When we had a mascot who wanted to repel from the ceiling. I learned all about drone flying and the licenses needed for that. Any given day, you kind of have to figure it out. And uh, I start with Google a lot, like everyone says for a lawyer, like, how do you do that?

But honestly, that’s where I’d start and then I’d go figure out like the actual nuances of how to get it done.

Anne Ristau: I love the problem solving that’s involved and I think any leadership role in sports and entertainment is what nev no day is ever the same and certainly true, um, on the team side. Securing a permanent home for the coyotes was one of the big challenges [00:05:00] that all of the owners you worked with faced.

Um, you’ve been through that process a few times. I don’t know if they’re highlights or low lights, but can you talk us through what that entailed?

Marina Carpenter: Yeah, so despite kind of some of the day-to-day challenges that every team goes through, we have this kind of looming. Arena, long-term permanent solution effort.

That was like always the main focus. And so it looked different, uh, throughout, you know, the eight years we looked at some state land, we looked at municipality. So within a city, the toughest part was. Amongst our efforts to get a long-term solution, we had to find a short-term solution. So our lease with the current venue that they had played at for 20 something years came to an end and we had 10 months to figure it out and get ready for the 2022 season.

Um, that involved looking at every [00:06:00] possible rink in the state of Arizona. And all of the factors around it and evaluating the pros and cons, knowing it was short term, and that really led to the partnership with Arizona State University. They have a D one hockey program that’s awesome and really fun to watch.

By the way, they were literally under construction with a building and we reached an agreement with the Arizona Board of Regents. To be a tenant in that building, but that required us to modify construction documents, modify literally the timeline. So I spent. Probably seven or eight months with a hard hat, a cute little reflective vest, eye protection and gloves.

And I was walking the site pretty much every day. So working with the architect and the contractor to make it work for my broadcast partner, for our corporate partners and our players and the league. And. We didn’t meet a lot of the traditional NHL standards. It was only a 5,000 seat [00:07:00] venue, but we tried to make the best of it.

How can we make this an amazing fan experience and keep hockey in Arizona while we were pursuing this long-term kind of arena solution,

Anne Ristau: which ultimately the future venue for the coyotes did come down to just a handful of votes. Can you tell us about that campaign?

Marina Carpenter: The second to last effort, uh, to keep the team in Arizona was in Tempe, Arizona, and it came down to a referendum.

So basically a public vote, but it was limited to the voting population of the city of Tempe, I think was like 16,000 voted against and 14,004. So that was a lot of time meeting with neighborhood groups, community members. Trying to explain the benefits of having an entertainment district and the team being there, and ultimately it was unsuccessful.

Anne Ristau: How many stakeholders did you have to bring together even to get to that voting process?

Marina Carpenter: So [00:08:00] we spent a lot of time with city council members, economic development teams. Um, I think of everything from traffic, uh, the neighboring Arizona State University, um, airport and FAA officials because it was close enough to sky Harbor that that played a factor into the design.

So everyone has. Their priorities and sometimes they can align and sometimes they’re in conflict. And so it was a lot of, I don’t wanna say negotiation, but it was a lot of like, what is it gonna take to make all these factors really work together? Um, and so it was a really fun process to be a part of and, and juggle it that way.

Anne Ristau: Certainly is a ultimate puzzle. I’d also love for you to talk about as an NHL club, you’re, you know, in many ways on the same kind of team as the league and have shared interests and incentives, but there’s times when you’re on the other side of the table. And can you talk about the league relationship, both pros and cons in Arizona?

Marina Carpenter: Yeah, so the league office and the [00:09:00] commissioner and deputy commissioner. We’re always super supportive of trend. Keep hockey in the desert. We had what we needed from them to, you know, speak to council members. They come and do press conferences for us. I think they’d shown their dedication to the Arizona market, you know, keeping the team through bankruptcy in.

Kind of the mid two thousands and being creative to make solutions work. They made a lot of accommodations for us to play at Arizona State University’s hockey facility that is definitely outside the norm. So they definitely were a partner in all of those aspects, but we did have our fair share of conflicts or challenges that arose to the league level.

Um, we. Still had to comply with a collective bargaining agreement. Um, we had broadcast partners and certain elements that we needed to work in tandem with. And so when your commissioner is judge and jury, and uh, your business partners are sometimes [00:10:00] competing, and it was a tricky dynamic to balance. But at the end of the day, what’s best for the league is usually.

What’s best for the teams, even if we didn’t love some of the outcomes. So I’m grateful for the league office. I learned a lot from everyone, from their legal team to their ops team, to their facilities guys. They do a great job.

Anne Ristau: What’s one area where certain properties just get it right and others really struggle?

Marina Carpenter: So from my experience, the properties that get it right. Are very proactive in planning, bring a lot of people to the table and really understand the end user. And it’s driven based on a lot of strategic tactic, you know, step A to Z and that to me is probably the best recipe for success. The projects that have not gone well, um, or had their challenges are when we make a lot of pivots.

Change orders are [00:11:00] expensive and when you change things, it impacts everyone. So think of all the people that operate within a venue. Yes, it’s the team. So think players, coaches, staff. Equipment, guys, all of that. But then you have the fan experience, how they’re moving throughout the building. You usually have an arena manager, so think ticket takers and guest relations and security, and you have your concessionaire who’s, you know, prepping food and moving things throughout the building.

You have your merchandise partner and what they’re making available. You’re dealing with parking. Your broadcast partners, you think of your corporate sponsors and how they’re gonna activate in the building and what space is best for, what people are you trying to optimize revenue? Are you trying to optimize operations?

And so every decision usually has like a rippling effect. So I’ve gotten to play a very unique role in trying to really understand everyone’s needs and priorities to [00:12:00] try to make the best decision for the venue or the property itself. And I think going back to some of the teams that don’t do it right, sometimes you have individuals, let’s say a coach who has very strong opinions on how something should be.

That coach might only be with you for 5, 6, 7, 8 years, and then you need to adjust for a new coach. Same thing with GMs or honestly even ownership groups. And so having very detailed data-driven decisions for why you’re doing things rather than personal preference was always this fine balance to to keep.

Anne Ristau: That’s really interesting because it is such a diverse set of stakeholders in the ecosystem, and maybe it’s the player and the athlete experience, or maybe the fans, but not many professional teams take into account all of them really well all of the time. I also love that. I think many people think being a C-suite leader at a professional team is a very glamorous job, but I, I direct them to say there’s a fair amount of, uh, just [00:13:00] rolling up your sleeves.

Marina Carpenter: Yeah, you just have to get it done. And that’s like the fun part about being a team. That’s why I love working at Navigate. ’cause we get to like work so closely with some of our clients and partners with any given person, it’s this random problem and it’s usually always like, we gotta get it done right now.

And that’s part of the fun. That’s what keeps you on your toes. And there are some pattern recognition that has come throughout the years that I don’t spin my wheels as much as I used to. But yeah, every day was a new adventure being on the team side.

Anne Ristau: I love that. Were you the only one who asked whether or not the mascot needed insurance?

Marina Carpenter: I had a really awesome team when I thought, when it came to game presentation and our broadcast partner and I tried to not be like the no police of like, no, you can’t do that. You can’t do that. So I’d like them to come to me with ideas early on in the process so we can get there. But being the lawyer, being responsible for risk mitigation and trying to understand that in my head all the time, I’m like.

Uh oh, [00:14:00] does our policy cover this? Like, do I need to get something else? Um, so I spent a lot of time with our, our insurance brokers, making sure I was doing the right thing.

Anne Ristau: Note to all activation teams. Bring your ideas early to legal. They’ll be your partner and they’ll be your friend. Truly is an amazing sort of set of experiences, of decisions.

Um, would love to turn now to how you’re applying that at Navigate. And could you talk a little bit about the different types of clients that you’re working with today?

Marina Carpenter: Yeah, so I’m sort of navigates consulting team and so I get to work with clients that are either teams. Colleges, conferences or ownership groups, and it’s usually a kind of big ticket item.

So something that’s changing the franchise, I would say like once in a decade type decisions, whether that’s going through structural changes, ownership changes, venue changes, so think renovations or new builds. And really our [00:15:00] magic is taking a large volume of information. We talk about all the perspectives and really trying to balance out.

The entire project. Understanding cost expenses, the revenues that can go with it. What, what do your partners need, what do your fans need, and how do you make it all work in a timely fashion? So that’s the the type of work that I’ve gotten to work on and continue to do so in the future and try to add my expertise of problem solving when I can.

Anne Ristau: You also sit on the board of the Pro Sports Assembly. Talk a little bit about that group.

Marina Carpenter: Pro Sports Assembly is the industry association for teams, leagues, venues, and unions for those that aren’t on the court or on the field. So think the 95% of our industry that’s working on the business side, it’s their industry association.

So we think about things that move the industry forward. Leadership, the economic impacts that the sports world has on the economy, and how do we leverage kind of the collective [00:16:00] to improve the industry, move it forward. And shameless plug, I’m also chairing the Pro Sports Assemblies Leadership Retreat and Workshop in Austin, Texas, June 17th and 18th.

If you have any interest. You can shoot me an email and I’ll get you the information that you need. It’s titled The Art and Science of Navigating Ownership Dynamics. So very applicable to everyone in the C-suite of like, how do I. You know, meet ownership expectations while also running the day-to-day with a broad range of staff and kind of some things that you can’t control.

Anne Ristau: Content sounds amazing. Austin, in June, I don’t know, you’re, you like it hot?

Marina Carpenter: That’s so bad for me coming from Phoenix, but I can, I can see that it’s an adjustment for some of our other friends.

Anne Ristau: In addition to working with professional teams and owners, you also spend a lot of time with navigates collegiate clients.

And something I know is near and dear to your heart is you played volleyball at [00:17:00] Arizona State. Tell us a little bit about that work.

Marina Carpenter: So these two worlds have really collided for me. I was a student athlete at Arizona State on the women’s volleyball team and had that experience obviously 15, 20 years ago.

That looked a lot different than it does now. But the way that the college game is changing in athletic departments are having to change how they’re structured, change where their priorities are. And really focus on the business aspects of revenue generation, my time and experience on the pro side of things.

It’s a really nice kind of integration on the evolution of the college athletic department. So we focus on kind of evaluating and assessing where things are and the biggest areas of improvement. Navigate has a wonderful history with a lot of college properties, both at the league level and at the individual university level.

So again, when we talk about kind of [00:18:00] that once in a generation shift in landscape and how do you best prepare for it, that’s where we plug in and kind of implement some of the changes that, that we know these properties need.

Anne Ristau: Private equity in college has been a huge topic. What is the value to a conference or a university?

Marina Carpenter: So in my mind, the private equity space is really kind of taking two paths. It’s either the enormous change, like what would funds do to totally change the landscape. And then the other area, which I think is probably more probable is kind of like a structured debt type of thing. Um, I think a lot of.

Schools are focusing on really improving themselves over the next five, six years until the next kind of potential time for shift with media rights coming, coming up in the early kind of 2030s, private equity has a knack for coming in with funds. The expertise to [00:19:00] improve and make changes. And so that’s where I think it’s gonna plug in.

Um, both at the conference level and in the college level.

Anne Ristau: And for the PE funds. Do you see the return potential? Would you invest?

Marina Carpenter: I would invest for a few reasons. One, the fandom associated with college athletics is stronger than a lot of the affiliation or affinity for pro. Pro sports, however, the pro sports market extract a lot more revenue out of those fans.

So in my view, if looking at it, there’s huge potential in the college space because the fandom is greater and deeper and growing at an exponential rate with, you know, alumni. And every time there’s a graduating class that I do think it’s an area that is ripe for growth and. You know, I don’t wanna say not risky, but it’s pretty stable and consistent and so I think that’s what makes it attractive to those PE funds.

And who doesn’t love college [00:20:00] sports.

Anne Ristau: Agreed. What about liquidity? Is that a challenge or is there money to invest?

Marina Carpenter: From my conversations, the money is there, uh, and it’s ready to be deployed. And it’s really just a matter of a structure that makes sense to both the fund and the university or conference.

Usually it’s kind of longer term relationships and it’s more of a rev share, so it looks like structured debt and not necessarily buying equity, but I think it’s there and people are eager to see how it performs and everyone’s bullish on it.

Anne Ristau: You’ve been directly involved in a lot of new kind of revenue generation.

When you think about just the, you know, last few years in the NHL from Jersey patch and helmet inventory to all kinds of new digital, is there some low hanging fruit in the collegiate landscape that they can take from the pros?

Marina Carpenter: I do, and I think there are a lot of kind of good examples. And so it was, I don’t wanna say a relief, but everyone was very much looking [00:21:00] forward to Jersey Patch Helmet, the LED Dasher boards that came online because it was new, it was a new found source of revenue.

It wasn’t cannibalizing anything else and. Right now, that’s what universities are looking for. We need a way to find revenue and it’s this great commercial enterprise and it can be that. So it’s not just about fundraising and donors and boosters. It’s also this commercial exchange because the value and the fandom and the viewership that college athletics kids, um, that I think you’ll see.

See that come online for a lot of universities, whether it’s on field Jersey patches, depending on what conferences want to do. And, and I think schools are gonna be eager for that.

Anne Ristau: You’ve recently written about this, um, all the ways, you know, private equity and beyond that an athletic. Department can react to the house settlement and raise what probably is a, you know, $20 million funding.

Can you talk us through that?

Marina Carpenter: Yeah, so it’s always this kind of balance of like [00:22:00] capital and control and. Some universities have said, Hey, private equity is not for us. We can borrow at better rates with more standard function that our university presidents are used to. We’ve had others that are very interested in it because they want a big infusion of cash for various reasons, whether that’s stadium renovations, they’re trying to up their premium game and extract more from their on-campus kind of game day revenues.

And then I think that you’re also. Looking or there’s been rumors and news reports around kind of these very big type of investments where they’re giving up long-term rev share because they’re really going to partner with these funds to create unique IP that they can sell. They can really, um, centralize and make it really efficient when it comes to partnerships.

So think like naming rights and things like that. So across the board, I think it’s gonna look different for the different kind of. Conferences and universities and what they’re willing to do, and I [00:23:00] think the more creative and bold universities are gonna be very well positioned over the next five, 10 years, and they’re gonna thank themselves for, for taking that kind of new step with a new type of partner.

Anne Ristau: Given your extensive experience with facilities and facilities, projects, which seem to be coming, you know, more sophisticated but also more expensive by the year, what is your advice to either a team or a university looking to take on a big renovation or a new construction project?

Marina Carpenter: The cost of construction and the time that it takes, uh, is significant.

So my advice to all of those properties or universities that are looking to do it is start the planning process very early and get all of your constituents at the table. So who’s going to actually operate the building? What is your broadcast partner need? What do your student athletes need? Or what is your training facility gonna look like?

And, and make sure you know how things are gonna flow when it comes [00:24:00] to food and beverage, security in and out. And having all of those things work together I think puts you in a great spot. ’cause if you understand the potential revenue. Afterwards, it’s easier to justify the expenses on the front end.

What you don’t wanna do is, uh, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna spend in this area. And then you get a building complete and you’re maxed out leaving revenue on the table because you should have structured something a little bit more flexible for higher premium prices.

Anne Ristau: So your husband, Rudy, is a former NFL player and works on the athlete side of the business, not easy to balance two careers in any industry, but certainly not in sports and entertainment.

How have you guys made it work?

Marina Carpenter: So, one, he’s the most patient man that I’ve ever met, and that’s probably, um, why, why it works, but. Obviously he was a student athlete. I was a student athlete. And so we get the sports side of things. And then when I really went into the business side and he being on the, the [00:25:00] operation side, so think like kind of coaches and understanding GMs, we just kind of get it, there’s like high and low times we thrive on competition.

Um, I don’t wanna say it’s like the typical athlete mentality, but that’s, that’s what we are. We both love sports and wanted to find a way to stay in it and. We’ve kind of been able to live that out. So when I am at venues late at night, he does bedtime. My kids, you know, thought I played hockey for my job even though I was learning to skate when they were.

And so it’s, it’s fun. There’s always sports on in our house, whether it’s football or basketball or baseball or golf or women’s volleyball. Um, my kids are getting exposed to it probably more than they want.

Anne Ristau: Awesome. Let’s wrap up with some rapid fire questions. Who is your favorite all time athlete?

Marina Carpenter: Gabrielle Reese, uh, is a volleyball player and really it’s two people, so her husband, Laird Hamilton is a big wave surfer and they’re dynamic [00:26:00] and everything they do I think is so awesome coming from the team sports side. I love that and it just. Blows my mind how individual sport athletes or a surfer who’s like alone in the ocean can keep the mental toughness and clarity to really thrive at their sport.

Um, so it’s, that’s my combo. Laird Hamilton and Gabrielle Reese Powerhouse.

Anne Ristau: Um, what’s your top life hack?

Marina Carpenter: Let’s see. Find a awesome partner in life to do life with them. You know, find your great teammate. I think, you know, having an awesome partner is, makes everything in life more fun and easier and really in all stages of life.

So work with great people, marry a great person, make great relationships with your family. Yeah, I guess that’s my life hack

Anne Ristau: specific sports moment from history that you would’ve loved to see live.

Marina Carpenter: You know what? I got to be on the 16th hole of the Waste Management Phoenix open for a hole in one celebration, and [00:27:00] for anyone who’s seen it on tv, it is very unique to the golf space, and it’s so intense.

I felt like I had. You know, thousands of best friends celebrating with me their champagne and music and, and everything. So that was a lot of fun just because it was kind of a, a unique thing that doesn’t happen very often. So, yeah, I wanna be on 16 at Waste Management. Um, Phoenix Open. Every time there’s a hole in one

Anne Ristau: favorite venue that you’ve played in.

Marina Carpenter: So I have a few, the ones that come to mind, I loved playing on Notre Dame’s campus. The history there, um, their fans, I thought it was a lot of fun. It was also a home football weekend for them, so I think that just like added to the magic Oregon’s old gym that is like kind of stacked. And my organ friends are gonna be mad that I can’t remember the name of the facility, but it was just loud.

And you felt like the fans were on top of you,

Anne Ristau: Arizona summer or Boston Winter.

Marina Carpenter: I’m an Arizona summer girl. I’m third generation. I’m used to the [00:28:00] heat. Every building you go into, the air conditioning is pumping, trying to function in snow and like the slip and falls and having to like shovel your driveway.

That’s not for me. I’ll take the heat. I’ll take the heat in the summer.

Anne Ristau: Marina, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope folks that want to work in professional sports took some notes because truly an amazing set of experiences and we’re so thrilled to have you with us here at Navigate.

Marina Carpenter: Thank you.

It was privileged to be here.

Anne Ristau: If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to us, Marina or I, my email is ANNE@NVGT.com. And you can also connect with us on my personal LinkedIn or the Navigate page.

​[00:29:00]