Podcast Alert: Mark Murphy – Green Bay Packers
As an NFL player, DI Athletic Director, and now the President & CEO of the Green Bay Packers, Mark Murphy has experienced the sports industry from all sides.
His interview with guest host Jeff Nelson – Navigate President and lifelong Packers fan – explores a wide range of topics that include NFL labor relations, winning a Super Bowl, and appealing to the next generation of NFL fans.
Transcript
+^Mark Murphy: [00:00:00] The relationship between management and the players is so different now. And yes, we’re on opposite sides, but there’s a level of respect that just didn’t exist. When I was playing mean, we were fighting for the rights that the players now take. Yeah. As management, we have to make difficult decisions. We want them to know that we’re going to treat our players like we would treat our own son.
Jeff Nelson: Hello, welcome to the Navigating Sports Business podcast. I’m your guest host today, Jeff Nelson, the President of Navigate. We are a data-driven consulting firm, guiding major strategies and decisions in sports and entertainment. We started this podcast to share the experiences and the stories of some of the amazing people we get to work with.
They’re not the star [00:01:00] athletes on the field, but they are the most influential people off of it. Hopefully, you learn a little something about them and a little something from them over the course of our conversations.
I’ll be sitting in for AJ Maestas today and on some of our future podcasts. Especially whenever it makes sense because of a tie between me and our guests. That is certainly the case today. I grew up in Milwaukee going to Green Bay Packers games with my dad and my great uncles. Back at old Milwaukee County Stadium, we would have two tickets, but they would let all three of us in.
And I would sit on my dad’s lap as a five-year-old six, seven, probably even eight or nine-year-old. And we’d watch the Don [00:02:00] Makowsky Packers or the early Brett Favre years Packers. And those are some of the fondest and most formative memories I have from my childhood. They obviously ignited a lifelong passion for sports that has helped influence the career path I chose, but they have also served as the foundation for an attachment to the Packers that has only grown over the years.
I became a shareholder in the mid-1990s. I went to Superbowls 31 and 32 with my mom, my dad, and my great uncles. And in recent years have now started to watch Packers games with my five-year-old son and my soon-to-be four-year-old daughter. Those are just some of the reasons I’m really excited to speak with our guests today.
Mark Murphy, the President, and CEO of the Packers. For all of you, I think you’ll find that he has had an incredible career and has some great stories to share. [00:03:00] Hi, mark. Thank you for joining us on the podcast. Very excited to have you both professionally and as I think I mentioned to you a few weeks ago, personally, with my Wisconsin roots and green and gold in my blood.
Mark Murphy: Great to be on with you. And I’m glad to hear that you’re a cheese head.
Jeff Nelson: Yes, yes. Through and through. Actually, I think that’s probably the question I have to get out of the way before we get into the more interesting stuff. But the NFC championship game, I probably only think about it once every two or three days at this point, but as an executive, how much do the wins and losses stickers?
Mark Murphy: They say, I mean, probably not as much as a player or a coach, but they still stick with you. And it’s, especially that one, you know well, two years in a row and the championship game, but this year having a home like we all felt like the stars were aligned and everything was set up for us to go to the super bowl, but I’ll give credit to the to the [00:04:00] Bucs they played well, and gosh, we still had our chances though.
Jeff Nelson: I know you are one of the very few people out there that can actually make that direct comparison to your playing days. How much does the highs and the lows kind of come and go with you now compared to when you were a player?
Mark Murphy: Yeah. I mean, you still are, the losses are hard to take, but I think as an executive, you do have to take a little bit of a longer-range perspective, especially in the position I’m in.
Now, you kind of set the tone and the tempo for the ordinary. As tough as it is to deal with some of these losses. We can’t just say, oh, give up, you know, and I mean, I think you have to look at things realistically and in reality and the NFL has only one team feels good about the way they’re seasoned.
It’s true in all professional sports. Particularly in the NFL, it is just so hard to win. And not that we accept not winning the super bowl, but I think you also have to look at it objectively. And we had two years in a row, the 17 and 18 [00:05:00] seasons we had losing seasons. We weren’t in the playoffs, turned things around, and obviously a lot of the credit goes to our new head coach, Matt LaFleur, pretty amazing, really to turn things around two years in a row.
Two years in the NFC championship game, 13 regular season wins both years. I know it’s not a super bowl, but it’s still a lot to build on.
Jeff Nelson: Did you want it any more this year because of everything you had to go through with COVID just to, just to play the games and to get to that point?
Mark Murphy: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a great question. And then, you know, there was such a strange. And yeah, I mean, I was just so proud of the way our team, coaches, and players had handled everything and, you know the other thing I thought we were really a much better team this year than we were last. Even though our record was identical.
We were I think a more well-rounded well well-rounded team, particularly defensively. Last year, we really had trouble stopping the run this [00:06:00] year. We were really playing well and kind of, I saw we were peaking at the right time, but the more we talk about this yeah. It makes you realize, well, that’s the thing, you know, you put so much time and effort and you know how hard it is to get in the position that we got.
But, you know, that’s the reality of it and nobody feels sorry for us. And you know, we’ve got to look at it and say, you know, what can we do differently? What can we do better? And I think this year is going to be a particularly big challenge for everybody with our salary cap going down for the first time since probably 10, 15 years.
Jeff Nelson: Your career is no stranger though, to difficult times. And you’ve really had a very singular career with playing and then being an athletic director and then the chief executive of, an NFL team. And I know, I think on your bio, on the website, it says. You’re believed to be the only person who has won a Superbowl as both a player [00:07:00] and a chief executive.
But if we rewind 40 years, I would love to hear about the final years of your playing career, because they had both incredible glory on the field, but a lot of tumultuous times off of it.
Mark Murphy: Yeah. I mean, there’s no question, you know, I look back on it. You know, I was very actively involved in the players association, you know, I’d kind of grown up around labor relations.
My father was the Director of Labor Relations steel company. So, I had an interest in labor relations and I became the Redskins player rep I think in my third year. So, in 1982, when the collective bargaining gear or collective bargaining agreement had expired. And I, at that time, was not only the Redskins player rep.
I was on the executive committee for the players association. Yeah. In 82. Played two games. And then we went on strike for 57 days and the Redskins, I ‘m going to say Redskins. I know that that’s not, [00:08:00] but they were the Redskins. And so, we, you know, started the season out 2-0, and got off to a really good start.
I should say, the previous year our first-year head coach, Joe Gibbs dotted the season off 0-5. And finished the season 8-3, you know, nobody really well. You’re kind of a dark horse that nobody, yeah. We ended up 8-8, but if you look at it, you know, we really finished the season strong and we’re playing, playing very well.
Yeah, we were 2-0, and then the strike hits and you know, I was in the middle of those negotiations, really. We thought, you know, that we would end up having to cancel the season, but we were able to piece it together, and played a shortened season. I think we only had nine regular season games and we ended up in the Redskins.
Ended up 8-1, and really a difficult, challenging year, but everything kind of fell together. And you know, we, they, they expanded the playoffs in 1982 because of the shortened regular season. [00:09:00] Yeah. The Redskins we ended up, we had three straight home games and the playoffs I tell you that the last one, the NFC championship game was against the Cowboys.
And I’ll never forget that. It’s such a great rivalry, between the Cowboys and the Redskins. So, we’d be, I think it was, we beat Minnesota in the second round of the playoffs. So, we knew if we won, we would play Dallas and I’ll never forget the fans at RFK. They started chanting. We want Dallas at the end of the game.
And I remember looking up in the stands and they have portable bleachers there. Cause it was a lot of the stadiums back then were combination, baseball and football stadiums, but the bleachers are going up and down. And so they started chanting. We won Dallas and then, you know, to start the game against the Cowboys as we came out on the field for warmups, they, they were chanting.
We won Dallas again. So. Pretty special game. And of course, ended up winning a very close game and then won the super Superbowl. And then, you know we ended up [00:10:00] making the SuperBowl the second year, but we ended up losing to the Raiders that year, but I was a pretty good run. And obviously, Joe Gibbs went on to some great things.
Jeff Nelson: Yeah. And you led the NFL and interceptions that, that second year, 1983, but a year later, basically. You retire. And we had Donald Dell, your former agent on our podcast, and he told the story of you and the former Redskins owner, like Jack Kent Cooke negotiating. I would love to hear kind of in your own words, how you go from Donald said leading the NFL and interceptions to retiring a year later, really on principle.
Mark Murphy: Yeah, well, I didn’t really, it’s a stretch to say I retired. I think the Redskins retired me, but now, you know, it’s funny. I look back on it, probably was one of the best things that happened to me. You know, I played eight years accomplished as I wanted to keep playing now. And, you know, I that’s [00:11:00] kind of was my attitude at the time, but I’d been accepted in the law school.
I had a job offer from the players association. It was a good thing to end the way it did. But I was still very bitter. We were super bowl participants, two years in a row. And then in 1984, my last season, the second game of the year, sprained ligaments in my knee. And I’ll never forget, Jack Kent Cooke came up to me at practice and he said, you know, he was kind of a magnanimous man.
He’s a real character. And said, “how’s that knee, mark?” And I said, well, they said, it’s going to be a few weeks. And he looked at me and he said, “you’ll never play again.” And so that was kind of the end of my career. You know, I didn’t have to have surgery, but I was able to come back at the latter part of the year, didn’t play at all.
And then that year we played the bears and the playoffs, and I ended up playing most of the game. But given what Cooke had said to me, I knew it didn’t make sense to come back to the Redskins. Released me and they released me, but nobody [00:12:00] picked up, like I said, I was able to get started right away.
Yeah. So, I ended up working for the player’s association and going to law school at night. And my wife was the same. We had two young kids; I think at the time. And I kind of buried myself in work and in law school. But as I said, It worked out.
Jeff Nelson: Well, I think you’ll be flattered to know that Donald who obviously represented Arthur Ash and Stan Smith and Michael Jordan, and the list kind of goes on and on.
He brought up this story somewhat out of the blue to make the point in his words that character matters. And he felt that your involvement in the players union and what you stood for, and the fact that it seems like in part, right? It, it costs you your career, but it was a sign that you had such strong character and well, you’re in an interesting position, right.
Of being on the other side of the table now for quite a number of years, how much. [00:13:00] Did that experience imprint on you, how you now handle league matters, team matters, negotiations, any of the, you know, the important things on your plate like that?
Mark Murphy: Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you for most of my career, Aaron Rogers has been our player rep, and there’s no way in hell I’m going to say to Aaron, you know you’re injured and you’re never going to play again.
Jeff Nelson: It’s probably smart.
Mark Murphy: The relationship between management and the players is so different now, and yes, we’re on opposite sides, but there’s a level of respect and that just didn’t exist when I was playing.
I mean, you know, we really, we were fighting for the rights that the players now take for granted, quite honestly. And, you know, and I, I feel like I have a really good relationship with our players. I want them to understand. Yeah, it was management we have to make difficult decisions. We want them to know that we are always want to treat them fairly.
And well, we have said is we’re going to treat our players. Like we would treat our own [00:14:00] sons. Yes. We’re going to have to make difficult decisions, but that’s kind of the nature of our business. And we’re going to make sure that you feel like you were treated fairly and given a fair chance, whether it’s to make the team or negotiating contracts.
And that’s a tough thing. You know, with the salary cap now there’s just, and especially this year, really it forces teams to make it really difficult decisions.
Jeff Nelson: What has been the most challenging issue in that labor relations relationship for you as a CEO and president over the past? I guess 13?
Mark Murphy: Well, I would say early in my tenure, I faced a pretty, a pretty challenging situation.
So that was the off-season, the off-season, a bread farm. So officially started January, like 2008. Yeah, really. It was the end of the 2007 season Packers had a great year. I think they were 13-3. I ended up hosting two playoff games, [00:15:00] play the Giants and NFC championship game at home. And we had everything set up and I’m thinking, oh my gosh, I’m going to go to a SuperBowl in my first few months on the job.
But we ended up losing a heartbreaker and overtime to the Giants. wind-chill of like -20. I mean, poor Tom Coughlin. I thought we thought all thought he was going to die that game. But so, a week or two, after that loss, Brett Favre announces that he’s going to retire. We have a ceremony up here at Lambeau Field.
We started making plans where we’re going to retire far as numbers. We’re going to have him back first game of the season. And everything’s all set. We installed Aaron Rogers as our starting quarterback, and then come like, you know, May and June, we got a call from Favre and he says, you know, I’ve got an itch.
Well, you know, and what do you mean though? He, he said, you know, I think I want to keep playing now that that kind of exploded into the, [00:16:00] where the media here, like long story short, we ended up trading him to the jets and he played one year for the jets and ended up getting back to coming back and played two years for the Vikings.
That was really so intense, and we have something we call our tailgate chores. And we changed it a little bit over the years, but I take three current players and sometimes I take alumni as well, but we go across the state, and we stop in all these little towns, and we were on the tailgate tour right in the middle of Favre. Favre announced that he wanted to play again. And so, every stop along the tailgate tour was answering questions about Brett Favre. And so, it was pretty intense media coverage and rose, obviously, you know, he was one of the most prominent players in the league at the time and ended up making the decision to trade him.
And it really divided our fans. There were so many of our fans that were loyal to Favre. We have our annual shareholder [00:17:00] meeting and we had a lot of fans show up in protest of that. How could the Packers trade Brett Favre? And so, I learned a lot of lessons and actually very early in my tenure, it was really good that I had to work very closely with both Ted Thompson our General Manager at the time, as well as Mike McCarthy, our Head Coach, at the time.
We were all in unison that this was the right thing to do. And we all prayed like any way we could that Brett or that Aaron Rogers ended up being a good quarterback
Jeff Nelson: and most prayers were answered.
Mark Murphy: Yeah. It turned out, you know, but then you really haven’t played much, and nobody knew. And we, we thought he could be really good. And obviously he’s surpassed even the expectations that we’ve had.
Jeff Nelson: He broke his foot. Right. For like, he came in far, I’ve got knocked out and Rogers came in, he broke his foot after only a few plays if I remember right.
Mark Murphy: Yes. Yeah, you’re right. Yeah. And he hadn’t really had much, you know, far was, he was an iron man.
He never, never missed any [00:18:00] games. So, it was really an open question and Aaron had played well and they played the Cowboys and in that 2007 season, and Favre got hurt, of course, Favre came back, he always does. And then it’s very similar. I mean, we were criticized now, and I’ll talk a little bit about that, but I think there’s always a balancing act in an organization between.
Planning for the immediate future. And then also planning for the longer. Probably the best decision to Ted Thompson made and his best draft pick was drafting Aaron Rogers when he had Brett Favre and somewhat of a similar vein this past off season. Even though we had Aaron Rogers, we drafted Jordan Love. It’s just the quarterback position is so.
In the NFL and there’s an old saying the best time to draft a quarterback is when you don’t need one. So, you’re not desperate, hopefully at some point whenever Aaron decides to retire or Jordan has a chance to play he ends up having a [00:19:00] similar experience as Aaron. And, you know, I think Aaron learned an awful lot, you know, he sat for three years.
That’s unheard of in the NFL today. And I think that’s really one of the problems. It’s oftentimes you throw quarterbacks in too soon and you before they’re ready and you know, they get kind of shell shocked. So, when Aaron, when he finally became a starter in 2008, he was ready, you know, 2008. I think we ended up just missing the playoffs and then 2009, made the playoffs, 2010, we won the SuperBowl, and you know, and we’ve been in the playoffs. These, I think it was eight years in a row. And so, we’ve been pretty consistently in the playoffs with him as our quarterback
Jeff Nelson: You mentioned obviously the prayers that Aaron would pan out which he has, but when you win a Superbowl and I guess it was your third, was that your third year with the team, how much does that help you then do everything you want to do [00:20:00] around the team or with the business side or with Lambo, with the development district, how much did winning on the field give you kind of the political equity is the right term, but you know what I mean?
Mark Murphy: Yeah, there’s no question. Winning helps.
You know, I think everybody wants to be associated with a winner. It’s been very helpful. I do share a funny story. Obviously, the Packers are a very unique organization where you don’t have a single owner we’re owned by shareholders, and we’ve had a total of five stock sales in our history. And our timing was really good.
So, the last stock sale was 2011. And so, we were defending world champions and the middle of a 15 and one regular season. When It went on sale, we were 13-0, so that only helps us.
Jeff Nelson: That’s just great leadership right there. Right.
Great foresight.
Mark Murphy: You have to be careful because as you say it, [00:21:00] all the leaders and when things go bad, it’s like, then, then they look at you.
But too much, I think people realize, you know, you’re not going to win the super bowl every year, but to run the organization in a way where every year, you have a legitimate chance to win and to make it into the playoffs. And, you know, the reality is the teams that win a super bowl, get hot at the right time, you know, and that’s what happened for us in 2010.
You know you look at the Buccaneers, they were a wild card team. You know, their defense played very well. Obviously, you haven’t Tom Brady doesn’t hurt.
Jeff Nelson: When you think about the future, you’ve achieved so much at the packer. So beyond on the field that everybody knows, right? I’m sure there are people listening, who don’t follow the Packers, or they don’t live in, in Wisconsin.
Really realized the Lambo renovation projects that have taken place, the title town development. It’s really been an incredible decade of achievement for [00:22:00] you. What’s next? Do you have another, big project, another big objective that, you think about in the twenties being something that you want to.
Mark Murphy: A lot of it starts with football, so it’d be nice to win another championship. Another super bowl we’re going to continue. We’re very fortunate. We have another long-term collective buying agreement with 10 more years. So that’s from a financial standpoint, that’s going to allow us to invest a lot of money in the stadium.
And we’re going to continue to invest in the stadium on our football facilities. And Titletown, we still have a lot of work to do on that come along. It’s been exciting, but yeah, I’m definitely in the back nine of my career. So the last few holes, but a couple of things I do want, I do want to see Titletown built out some of the changes that we’ve got planned for Lambeau field.
And I think will really set the stadium up now again, a couple more Lombardi trophies. It’d be nice too.
Jeff Nelson: Yeah. Yes, it would. [00:23:00] It would make my household much happier. Is there any job out there that could entice you for one more professional stop? Any sort of remaining dream job, no matter how similar or different?
Mark Murphy: I don’t think so. I mean, I’m 65 years old and I’m very blessed to have a job that is very unique. You know, my job is kind of like almost like being the president of a university. And that you’ve got, I’ve got a board of trustees. It’s very unique across all of professional sports. And I really enjoyed my time here and my wife and I love Green Bay.
We’ve got a place in Door County. So, you never say never, but you know, it’s been a pretty special run and, you know, hopefully, we can keep it going.
Jeff Nelson: And you have pain in the butt shareholders like me. As a publicly owned team, your books are open every year. They make headlines every year.
Mark Murphy: oh yeah, every year in July.
Jeff Nelson: Does that ever impact your decision-making, [00:24:00] your communications? I mean, it has to, in some way impact the job compared to if you were at any of the other teams.
Mark Murphy: I mean, we do it every year, but there’s no question. That’s something that we plan for. And actually we, we talk quite a bit around that time with the league office.
It’s a big story because this is the only way that the national media can get a glimpse into what the NFL finances look like. So now we’re very open and honest and we talk about it, and you know, the vast majority of years, it’s been very positive in this upcoming July. It’s not going to be so positive.
We didn’t have any fans and revenue was down, but obviously very understandable given the pandemic.
Jeff Nelson: We get asked. As a affirm, that’s built on a foundation of research, data, and analytics about the NFL’s popularity and oftentimes the root causes of it. And you can ask 10 different people. You’ll get 10 different answers.
But from your [00:25:00] perspective, even though TV ratings decline this past year, the NFL is still number one by a huge margin. By almost every metric the NFL continues to be number one in many ways, at least domestically. Why do you think the NFL is just so seemingly indestructible popular?
Mark Murphy: Yeah. You know, I’ve thought about it a lot too.
I think the parody within the league and, you know, there’s an old saying in the NFL on any given Sunday and there’s a lot of truth in that it’s a sport that’s really made for television. You know, you think about the natural timeouts and the league has done a really good job in terms of marketing the league, promoting the league.
You know, I love all sports and, you know, as an athletic director, you see the good and the bad of every sport. I think in some ways what separates football, it’s kind of the ultimate team sport. And I think fans liked [00:26:00] that and that everybody’s pulling together. And I just hope it continues. The vast majority of revenue from professional sports comes from television.
And, as I said before, NFL is really kind of made for television with natural breaks. There’s a lot of scoring in the NFL and it’s complicated enough where people can’t really understand it, but they think they do. If that makes sense, they love questioning the strategy and it’s, and it’s a game that, you know, basketball and baseball are kind of free flowing. In football, they’re stoppages, and then there are plays and there are defenses and you can question decisions that are made where it’s a lot more difficult in some of the others.
Jeff Nelson: Are you saying some of the people that I hear on talk radio don’t know what they’re talking about.
Mark Murphy: Now are you talking about the host or the people calling in? Yeah. Well, that’s the beauty of it. I mean, [00:27:00] everybody, no matter what decision you make, if it doesn’t work out, you can, the second gap.
Jeff Nelson: A few questions I want to ask you about kind of looking forward.
Do you think there will be any long-lasting changes as a result of COVID to the NFL?
Mark Murphy: I think we’ve learned that we can do things differently than we have in the past. I think you’ll probably have more and more meetings virtually. I do miss in-person meetings, but you know, when you weigh the cost and the time to you think of flying everybody, everybody from across the league, into New York for meetings.
So, I do think that there’ll be some changes. I think there’s a little bit, everybody wants to get back to normal as soon as possible. I think we’re also; you can see some benefits of the way we’ve done things, you know, it’s going to be, it’ll be interesting. Are fans going to flock back as soon as they can or?
Now we’re probably at risk more than most teams [00:28:00] because we have the second largest stadium in the NFL. You know, over the recent years we, we added, whereas a lot of teams were cutting back and converting seats in the club or sweets rather than general admission, but yeah, I can see some changes in terms of seat allocations and things of that nature.
Jeff Nelson: This is where I plugged the fact that we’re doing work on this topic with Populous. And so, we should talk offline about some of the insights we’ve gleaned. As the sports world tries to get people back and as engaging sports fans become more and more of a challenge with all the fragmentation out there of options.
On a scale of 1 to 10, let’s say with 10 being the biggest priority and, and one being forget about it over the next decade. How much of a priority do you think sports betting will take in states where it’s legal in terms of [00:29:00] being a tool to engage fans?
Mark Murphy: I think it’s good. And it’s going to be a big issue in a positive way.
You know, we have to manage. Cause obviously there could be abuses and problems. I think football probably stands to benefit as much as any sport. Yeah, we’ve been tracking Wisconsin is kind of trailing behind some of the other sports, but I think eventually you’ll see it across the country. It’s just, that there’s too much revenue to be generated, and yeah.
And, and, you know, in terms of fan engagement, I think it’s going to, it will be very positive.
Jeff Nelson: Do you think similar to some of the venues that are already building them we’ll ever see a sports book in Lambeau field? Or, if not in it, in the kind of Titletown development around it?
Mark Murphy: Yeah. I’d say long-term I could see that.
I should say we have a very good relationship with the Oneida Nation. You know, they’ve been a big sponsor of ours almost going back to our first years as an organization. And it’s really going to be fascinating. I think the pandemic will probably speed this up [00:30:00] just because of the potential revenue.
Jeff Nelson: I’ll explain why I’m asking this question in a moment, but if I can ask what’s the age range of your kids?
Mark Murphy: So, my kids, the age range, like birthdays, 30 to 37.
Jeff Nelson: So, millennials, the older half of millennials. Do any of them have kids yet?
Mark Murphy: My two oldest daughters do. Yep. I’ve got five grandchildren.
Jeff Nelson: Oh five. And what are their ages? If I can ask?
Mark Murphy: Sure. Almost six to a one yeah.
Jeff Nelson: So that’s probably Gen Alpha, is kind of what we’re calling that right now. We’ve been really obsessing about Gen Z. So in between millennials and Gen Alpha lately, and I know a lot of, a lot of our clients are asking about it and we found that the NFL was actually still number one with Gen Z in terms of popularity.
Number two, this research is a year old, but number two was Fortnite the game. Well, we threw that in as an example of e-sports or of gaming, something to compare to [00:31:00] them, the NBA, which comes next and then college. Yeah. So, the NFL is still ahead of the curve, but 34% of Gen Z said they were a fan of the NFL compared to the older generations, which the average is 49% and across the board, pretty much traditional sports were lower.
Do you have big concerns, small concerns, somewhere in the middle when you think about these next generations of fans? So, I guess Gen Z and then that, that Gen Alpha your grandkids generations, how you get them to be a passionate at NFL fan, like millennials and Gen X and boomers?
Mark Murphy: Yeah, I do have a concern, probably a mid-level I would say, you know what, I’m pretty involved with USA football and one of the best things I think we can do is to make the game at all levels as safe as possible because our research shows. The more, [00:32:00] you play football, and it could be women which like football or women playing youth football, you are more likely to become an avid fan.
And you understand the game a little more. So, I, think probably what hurts the NFL is concerned about the safety of the game, particularly concussions. And so, anything that we can do to make the game safer and to limit the number ofcareer-threateningg injuries, the better we are. You know, the other thing I would say, I mean, I think it’s a challenge for all sports.
More and more kids are sitting around playing video games rather than being out at. The other thing that I think there’s more and more sports specialization. And I saw this as an Athletic Director. One of the good things about football is that it is a sport where it’s a little more difficult to play it year-round.
You know, for instance, basketball, you know, you can play AAU on the summer high [00:33:00] school. You, you know, you can play year-round, although it’s not as bad, there’s a lot of seven on seven. You see a little bit in terms of football, but one of the real benefits of football that we have sold over the years is, hey, you know, play other sports.
That’s great. And focus on football in the fall. I just think, especially for junior high, high school athletes, it’s better to diversify, play a number of different sports because you don’t know which one you might be best at. And if you have to select or choose by six, seventh grade, that I’m going to just play this one sport year-round.
You end up, you know, having those kids burn out a lot, they’re just sick and they get sick of the sport, and you can also get a lot of repetitive use injuries.
Jeff Nelson: And I, think you do hear a lot of professional athletes talk about the other sports they played growing up and how much it benefited them.
This will go on to our sports parenting podcast. I do have a few rapid-fire questions, but this is the last kind of longer question. [00:34:00] Have you watched Ted Lasso?
Mark Murphy: I absolutely. are you kidding me? So yeah, I love it.
Jeff Nelson: Yes. The greatest show of the pandemic, certainly.
Mark Murphy: No, it’s, it’s really, it’s one of the best things. That’s right up there with Tiger King.
Jeff Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yes.
Well, I love Ted lasso. He has the kind of monologue when he’s playing darks, that kind of concludes with him saying that he learned, you know, don’t be judgmental, be curious. And from a curiosity standpoint, is there one thing that interests you and intrigues you that you wish you knew more about?
What is Mark Murphy still curious about after such an accomplished illustrious career?
Mark Murphy: Well, you know, I probably shouldn’t say this, but the whole analytics thing, I really like to know. I do know and we’ve hired people. And [00:35:00] how do you actually make those decisions? How do you know what’s good analytics, and what’s bad? They’ll think it comes down to kind of a gut feeling.
Jeff Nelson: Well, we specialize in the business analytics. So, I hope you’ll come to us whenever you get that. But no, on-field, I mean, it’s, so prevalent and obviously, every decision now is scrutinized through that lens and not take us kind of sadly, full circle. The decision to kick the field goal at the end of the NFC championship game immediately, my Twitter feed was just inundated with various people in their analytical models, arguing whether it was the right decision or the wrong decision.
Mark Murphy: Using analytics to argue both sides of it.
Jeff Nelson: Yeah. It was pretty incredible
Mark Murphy: well, if we had won the game looked pretty good.
Jeff Nelson: Yeah. The ends always seem to overshadow the means. All right. A few rapid-fire questions. What is something you do to relax?
Mark Murphy: I am an avid golfer and not very good, [00:36:00] but it’s something that, something that you really need to focus on.
So, I really enjoy that. And I also enjoy the exercise. I still walk when I play. And I do like to exercise quite a bit as I’ve gotten older, not so much more running more walking, trying to walk at a fast pace. Fortunately, I’m in a very good place for this. I cross country ski club and that really it was a good, very good workout.
Jeff Nelson: And we have underrated golf courses here. You just can’t play them all the time.
Mark Murphy: Short season.
Jeff Nelson: What is the best virtual background you’ve seen during a zoom?
Mark Murphy: They weren’t in San Francisco, but it was a golden gate bridge. And I was like, how the hell? Why, are they have the golden gate bridge? They weren’t there, but hey, anybody can have anything.
I’ll tell you a funny story. Obviously, the Northwestern campus and Evanston is beautiful. It’s right on Lake Michigan, everything that Chicago [00:37:00] has to offer. We, had one recruit once though we asked him, you know, why Northwestern? And he said, oh, I’ve always wanted to live on the Ocean. And we said, well, it’s not an ocean, but it looks like one.
Jeff Nelson: Did he end up going to northwestern?
Mark Murphy: he ended up coming to Northwestern? He eventually, he must’ve been whatever it takes to get those recruits.
Jeff Nelson: Yeah. He must’ve been pretty good. If you were to pick up a new hobby, what would it be?
Mark Murphy: Is playing with your grandchildren? A hobby. I guess I love doing that. I’d like to become more handy around the house I now have to call a handyman to come to do would really be a big help.
Jeff Nelson: That’s a good one and if you need more grandchildren age kids to play with, I have a four and a five-year-old down here in Milwaukee. Anytime. Just say the word. Yeah.
Mark Murphy: I guess, you know, another I need to get into fishing.
I’ve done it a lot. When I was growing up, my [00:38:00] grandfather loved to fish. I’ve kind of really focused, mostly on golf. I guess you only have so much time, but I love fishing, and especially up here, there’s great fishing in the Fox River or Lake Michigan and even ice fishing is very popular. So, I want to pick that up and get back into fishing.
Jeff Nelson: It seems like a good place to negotiate a contract, right? You got onto a boat or even better the shanty on the frozen lake. And you sit there with your,
Mark Murphy: there was ice became dislodged. There were like 50 people that were floating around.
It’s crazy. I mean, you see people out and their shanties was flowing water around them, but they know what they’re doing.
You know the other thing that’s really big up here is sturgeon spearing.
Jeff Nelson: Oh yeah. I’ve seen that.
Mark Murphy: I don’t know if I want to do that and I’m not so sure.
Jeff Nelson: I think that’s, that’s a bridge too far for me. What advice do you [00:39:00] offer young people looking to get into the sports industry?
Mark Murphy: Yeah. You know, well, you and I were talking about that earlier.
You know, the advice that I give is, you know, it’s a difficult field to break into. Everybody thinks that they want to be in sports because their sports fans. Reality is, it’s not that much different than other fields. You know, you’re going to have good days and bad days. And what I have said is if you do want to work in sports, you’re probably going to have to start out, probably making less than you would outside of sports.
You’re going to have to be willing to take a little less money. And in terms of usually, if you don’t have a graduate degree, it’s probably going to be, you should probably plan on it. Even in athletics. And I think the broader, the degree, I know the masters in sports administration programs have proliferated and there’s a lot of them across the country.
And they’re great, but I still believe, you know, a broader degree like an MBA or a law degree will open up more doors for you eventually. [00:40:00] Yeah. So that’s usually the kind of advice that I give people. And if you’re passionate about something you’ll know right away, if it’s right for you,
Jeff Nelson: Good advice.
Yeah, you’ve done. I’m sure. Dozens, if not hundreds of, of interviews and the positions you’ve been in, what’s one thing about Mark Murphy that would surprise people that you’ve never talked to.
Mark Murphy: I don’t know my, yeah. Especially being with the Packers. I mean, everything is pretty public, but yeah, let’s see.
One thing. I don’t know that I worked when I was in high school, I worked maintenance for my high school and worked the night shift, you know?
Jeff Nelson: So, so you, you want to get better at being a handyman? But you work maintenance and high school. I, worry about the quality of that work.
Mark Murphy: No, it was a, oh gosh, we had a guy named Ed Bear who was our boss and he just a [00:41:00] real character. He was a painter. So, I learned a lot about painting but now, I haven’t applied it as much as.
Jeff Nelson: Last question. How do I jump to the front of the season ticket holder line?
Mark Murphy: Well, I would say you’re better off trying to get club seats than general admission seats. they are more expensive but have a shorter line.
Jeff Nelson: Okay. I was hoping the answer was going to be to interview you for a podcast, but club seats, I guess, will be the route that I pursue. Well, Mark Murphy, President, and CEO of the Green Bay Packers. We really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Like I, said at the outset, really a singular professional life and obviously an extremely accomplished one.
Legacy here in Wisconsin, that is going to endure, not just the Superbowl, but in our world. Everything that you guys [00:42:00] have done on the business side has been impressive. And I think a model for a lot of other franchises, so really appreciate you taking the time to talk about it and looking forward to celebrating a Superbowl victory with you next year.
Mark Murphy: That sounds good. Well, thanks, Jeff. It was my pleasure. I really enjoyed it.
Jeff Nelson: Thank you for joining the podcast this week. If you’d like to join the conversation, email us at info@nvgt.com. Or check out our website@nvgt.com. Join us again next week for Navigating Sports Business.